Cubs-Astros 7/27/09

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=52550:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:31 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52544:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52534:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52526:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52512:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52505:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52497:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52481:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've said my peace. I'm just consistently astonished at baseball fans immediate reaction to blame the manager when the player completely fucks up. In this case, the manager is an idiot for not bringing in a right handed hitter to face a right handed pitcher, because it's somehow a guarantee that he would hit a flyball. Putting in the lefty who SHOULD be able to handle the bat is complete insanity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to call for a bunt, put in a guy who bunts from time to time. Valverde was all over the place. You send Bradley home when Valverde's pitch was as likely to be a foot outside as it was a strike? Stupid move for so many reasons. If we lose this game, it's on Lou.
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Of course it's Lou's fault. It's always Lou's fault when we lose. This will be just one of 40 games we lose this year that will be "on Lou", either because of pitching changes, batting order, or asking a guy to hit a bunt fair or foul.

I swear Butch, you would fucking read "Casey at the Bat", and blame the manager for letting Casey bat.
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It isn't always Lou's fault, but tonight it absolutely is. A suicide squeeze after the pitcher just walked the bases loaded? I liked sending Fontenot up there because his strike zone is tiny. But not to execute a squeeze. That was fucking retarded.
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So if Fontenot hit into a DP, would it be "on Lou"? If Fox strikes out, would it be "on Lou"? Let me ask you guys, going by the results this year, how often have we done nothing special, and failed to score with bases loaded and one out? Would it be particularly unusual for us to have stranded those guys? How can a game in which the team scores ONE run in 10 innings, be "on" the manager? What do the players have to do to get blamed?
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No, because you aren't asking them to do something retarded.
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Asking for a squeeze is "retarded"? Asking a major league player, a non slugger, to bunt the ball, is asking them to do something "retarded"? I don't have any idea how to even argue that point.
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In that situation? Yes. Extremely retarded.
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right. He should have tried one of those squeezes where there isn't a guy on third. Or are all squeezes "retarded"?

[Brock]

Can we work the cock sculpture on the roof into this argument somehow? Thanks.

[Butcher]

Asking him to bunt there when half a dozen other things would score a run was the wrong call, regardless of
the result.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=52553:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:33 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52550:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:31 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52544:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52534:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52526:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52512:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52505:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52497:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52481:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've said my peace. I'm just consistently astonished at baseball fans immediate reaction to blame the manager when the player completely fucks up. In this case, the manager is an idiot for not bringing in a right handed hitter to face a right handed pitcher, because it's somehow a guarantee that he would hit a flyball. Putting in the lefty who SHOULD be able to handle the bat is complete insanity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to call for a bunt, put in a guy who bunts from time to time. Valverde was all over the place. You send Bradley home when Valverde's pitch was as likely to be a foot outside as it was a strike? Stupid move for so many reasons. If we lose this game, it's on Lou.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Of course it's Lou's fault. It's always Lou's fault when we lose. This will be just one of 40 games we lose this year that will be "on Lou", either because of pitching changes, batting order, or asking a guy to hit a bunt fair or foul.

I swear Butch, you would fucking read "Casey at the Bat", and blame the manager for letting Casey bat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It isn't always Lou's fault, but tonight it absolutely is. A suicide squeeze after the pitcher just walked the bases loaded? I liked sending Fontenot up there because his strike zone is tiny. But not to execute a squeeze. That was fucking retarded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So if Fontenot hit into a DP, would it be "on Lou"? If Fox strikes out, would it be "on Lou"? Let me ask you guys, going by the results this year, how often have we done nothing special, and failed to score with bases loaded and one out? Would it be particularly unusual for us to have stranded those guys? How can a game in which the team scores ONE run in 10 innings, be "on" the manager? What do the players have to do to get blamed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, because you aren't asking them to do something retarded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Asking for a squeeze is "retarded"? Asking a major league player, a non slugger, to bunt the ball, is asking them to do something "retarded"? I don't have any idea how to even argue that point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that situation? Yes. Extremely retarded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

right. He should have tried one of those squeezes where there isn't a guy on third. Or are all squeezes "retarded"?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it's a force play at home too. The pitcher can field it quickly and flip home. Even if Fontenot gets it down there's no guarantee it works. If the bases aren't loaded it probably would, but there's no guarantee there.

[Coach]

If Fontenot could perform a simple baseball task, this board would be asleep.

[rok]

We're losing this game.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=52557:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:37 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 27 2009, 10:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Fontenot could perform a simple baseball task, this board would be asleep.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And it still would have been the wrong call, but with a nice result.

[dk123]

Can't we agree that it might not have been the best decision on Lou's part for various reasons, but that Fontenot is a total cocksucker?

[Clapp]

I might just walk Tejada here and pray Lee hits into a DP. Tejada's hitting .330.

[Butcher]

Reasons why the squeeze wasn't smart there, BT:

- the infield was in, to get a double play or the force at home. A bloop is a game winning hit.

- Valverde walked the bases loaded. He wasn't throwing any of his pitches for strikes. A walk or a wild pitch wins it.

- a fly ball wins it

How many of Fontenot's hundreds of ABs are attempted bunts? 1%? Less? Let him work the count or swing away. How often is Fontenot called on to bunt? I don't get it.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=52556:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:36 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jul 27 2009, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52553:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:33 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52550:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:31 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52544:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52534:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52526:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52512:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52505:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52497:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52481:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've said my peace. I'm just consistently astonished at baseball fans immediate reaction to blame the manager when the player completely fucks up. In this case, the manager is an idiot for not bringing in a right handed hitter to face a right handed pitcher, because it's somehow a guarantee that he would hit a flyball. Putting in the lefty who SHOULD be able to handle the bat is complete insanity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to call for a bunt, put in a guy who bunts from time to time. Valverde was all over the place. You send Bradley home when Valverde's pitch was as likely to be a foot outside as it was a strike? Stupid move for so many reasons. If we lose this game, it's on Lou.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Of course it's Lou's fault. It's always Lou's fault when we lose. This will be just one of 40 games we lose this year that will be "on Lou", either because of pitching changes, batting order, or asking a guy to hit a bunt fair or foul.

I swear Butch, you would fucking read "Casey at the Bat", and blame the manager for letting Casey bat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It isn't always Lou's fault, but tonight it absolutely is. A suicide squeeze after the pitcher just walked the bases loaded? I liked sending Fontenot up there because his strike zone is tiny. But not to execute a squeeze. That was fucking retarded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So if Fontenot hit into a DP, would it be "on Lou"? If Fox strikes out, would it be "on Lou"? Let me ask you guys, going by the results this year, how often have we done nothing special, and failed to score with bases loaded and one out? Would it be particularly unusual for us to have stranded those guys? How can a game in which the team scores ONE run in 10 innings, be "on" the manager? What do the players have to do to get blamed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, because you aren't asking them to do something retarded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Asking for a squeeze is "retarded"? Asking a major league player, a non slugger, to bunt the ball, is asking them to do something "retarded"? I don't have any idea how to even argue that point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In that situation? Yes. Extremely retarded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

right. He should have tried one of those squeezes where there isn't a guy on third. Or are all squeezes "retarded"?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it's a force play at home too. The pitcher can field it quickly and flip home. Even if Fontenot gets it down there's no guarantee it works. If the bases aren't loaded it probably would, but there's no guarantee there.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

See that's why I thought it was a good call. The astros had no idea it was coming, and there is virtually no chance they get him at home, even if it goes right to the pitcher. The Astros were on their heels, because they didn't expect Lou to call a "retarded" play.

[Clapp]

That's basically what he did, nothing close. If you score the game's going to be over anyway, and Tejada's a higher percentage hitter with Lee and you at least set up the DP here.

[Butcher]

*sigh*

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=52560:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:42 PM:name=dk123)-->QUOTE (dk123 @ Jul 27 2009, 10:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Can't we agree that it might not have been the best decision on Lou's part for various reasons, but that Fontenot is a total cocksucker?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what I said when it happened, but no one cared.

[BT]

Now we are probably going to lose, and despite the fact that outside of Lee and Ramirez, the rest of the team has 3 hits in 12 innings, Lou will be blamed for the loss. It's a joke.