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<!--quoteo(post=52694:date=Jul 28 2009, 10:57 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 28 2009, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52691:date=Jul 28 2009, 10:55 AM:name=vegascub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vegascub @ Jul 28 2009, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If most pitchers in the NL can lay down a bunt, then Fontenot should be able to do it. Even pitchers who suck at it at least usually make some sort of contact on a pitch right down the middle. That was an awful effort.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most NL pitchers probably practice bunting a whole lot more than Fontenot does.
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What are you talking about? EVERY position player practices bunting. Every day. It's part of batting practice. And again:
It didn't have to be a perfect bunt
In fact, it could be a horribly shitty bunt, but with the runner 10 feet from home plate, it wouldn't make a difference.
It didn't even have to be a successful bunt.
He just had to make contact.
That's it. If it's fair, we win the game, if it's foul, he goes back to trying to drive in the run another way.
Seriously, are we at the point that it's INCONCEIVABLE to ask a 5'7" second baseman to try to lay down a bunt? You are really going to tell me that it's OK to ask Kevin Hart to bunt, but to ask Mike Fontenot to do the same thing is looney tunes?
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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I don't think the argument is whetehr or not Fontenot should have gotten the bunt down. It's obvious, he should have executed and made contact with that pitch. Putting him into the game instead of Fox was Lou's fuck-up.
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Practicing something and putting into use in an actual game are two completely different things. And it's not as if the squeeze play is so common and is executed at such a high success rate that it's a given that it will work. The fact is, it was a high risk move that didn't work out because the guy up at the plate has never had any success at bunting.
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<!--quoteo(post=52702:date=Jul 28 2009, 11:09 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Jul 28 2009, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't think the argument is whetehr or not Fontenot should have gotten the bunt down. It's obvious, he should have executed and made contact with that pitch. Putting him into the game instead of Fox was Lou's fuck-up.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that. I think not putting in Fox was the wrong move. I don't think asking Fontenot to put down a squeeze bunt was a bad one.
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<!--quoteo(post=52703:date=Jul 28 2009, 11:10 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jul 28 2009, 11:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Practicing something and putting into use in an actual game are two completely different things. And it's not as if the squeeze play is so common and is executed at such a high success rate that it's a given that it will work. The fact is, it was a high risk move that didn't work out because the guy up at the plate has never had any success at bunting.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
Anyway, I've stated my opinion 100 times already and it isn't changing. It was a stupid move.
I'm glad this is the kind of shit we're arguing about now. You can tell the Cubs are in first place...
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Lou was pretty pissed at Fontenot in the post-game, even after we won. I think he may be benched for a little bit. I definitely agree it should have been Fox up there, in fact I would have used Fox the AB before instead of Fuk.
Anyway, it was a pathetic effort by Fontenot, he really never even squared at all, just kinda flailed at it, at the last minute.
I would have been a lot more mad with a loss, but it doesn't matter anymore. I'm glad we won it the way we did anyway. That should give Soriano a nice amount of confidence to continue his hot streak for a while.
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Your job, as a manager, is to put your players in the best situation possible for a successful outcome to result. Lou did not even come close to doing that with Fontenot in the 9th last night. Having Blanco try to bunt, PHing with Fox, letting Fontenot swing away, sending Fontenot up there without a bat in his hand, etc., etc., etc. would have all been better choices than doing what he did. Sure, Fontenot should have been able to make contact on a bunt attempt, but he should have never been bunting in the first place since it was about the 15th best option at that point.
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<!--quoteo(post=52713:date=Jul 28 2009, 11:51 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jul 28 2009, 11:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Your job, as a manager, is to put your players in the best situation possible for a successful outcome to result. Lou did not even come close to doing that with Fontenot in the 9th last night. Having Blanco try to bunt, PHing with Fox, letting Fontenot swing away, sending Fontenot up there without a bat in his hand, etc., etc., etc. would have all been better choices than doing what he did. Sure, Fontenot should have been able to make contact on a bunt attempt, but he should have never been bunting in the first place since it was about the 15th best option at that point.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Boom.
ruby gets it, big time. In fact, ruby has been on fire for about two weeks straight.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->sending Fontenot up there without a bat in his hand<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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<!--quoteo(post=52706:date=Jul 28 2009, 11:18 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 28 2009, 11:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm glad this is the kind of shit we're arguing about now. You can tell the Cubs are in first place...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was at the game Sunday and commented that the place just had a better energy than earlier in the season. Instead of waiting for something bad to happen everyone (myself included) seemed to expect good things.
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Butch, did you ever play baseball? Bunting is the easiest task on the planet. He should have made contact. PERIOD.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=52717:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Butch, did you ever play baseball? Bunting is the easiest task on the planet. He should have made contact. PERIOD.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played little league. But I never had to bunt a 95 mph fastball.
If bunting is the "easiest task on the planet," why do major league players fuck it up on a pretty regular basis?
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<!--quoteo(post=52718:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:04 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 28 2009, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52717:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Butch, did you ever play baseball? Bunting is the easiest task on the planet. He should have made contact. PERIOD.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played little league. But I never had to bunt a 95 mph fastball.
If bunting is the "easiest task on the planet," why do major league players fuck it up on a pretty regular basis?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't be intentionally dense. You may not have had to bunt a 95 MPH fastball, but every professional player has. That is relative, and you know it.
He should have made contact. Everyone should have made contact. He's been bunting since he was 6. It's not like he was summoned to come in a pitch that inning.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=52719:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:08 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Jul 28 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52718:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 28 2009, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52717:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Butch, did you ever play baseball? Bunting is the easiest task on the planet. He should have made contact. PERIOD.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played little league. But I never had to bunt a 95 mph fastball.
If bunting is the "easiest task on the planet," why do major league players fuck it up on a pretty regular basis?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't be intentionally dense. You may not have had to bunt a 95 MPH fastball, but every professional player has. That is relative, and you know it.
He should have made contact. Everyone should have made contact. He's been bunting since he was 6. It's not like he was summoned to come in a pitch that inning.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's such an automatic play, then why doesn't every manager call on their batter to lay down a bunt with a runner on third with less than two outs? It should be a free run every time, right?
Can you think of the last time you saw Fontenot try to bunt in a game situation? That's the first time I've ever seen it. The vast majority of ML players never bunt a baseball in a game situation. What do you think Fontenot's ratio of fly balls to bunts is in his career? 200:1? 300:1? Higher?
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<!--quoteo(post=52719:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:08 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Jul 28 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52718:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 28 2009, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52717:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Butch, did you ever play baseball? Bunting is the easiest task on the planet. He should have made contact. PERIOD.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played little league. But I never had to bunt a 95 mph fastball.
If bunting is the "easiest task on the planet," why do major league players fuck it up on a pretty regular basis?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't be intentionally dense. You may not have had to bunt a 95 MPH fastball, but every professional player has. That is relative, and you know it.
He should have made contact. Everyone should have made contact. He's been bunting since he was 6. It's not like he was summoned to come in a pitch that inning.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whether he should have made contact (which he should have) is irrelevant though, he should have never been bunting in the first place.
Also, you guys are really over-simplifying the aspect of bunting. If it wasn't a difficult task to perform, major league players would be doing it with far more frequency than they do. After playing baseball for 15 years, I can tell you that there were many other skills which are far easier to perform than bunting (whether it's for a hit or as a sacrifice). Also, bunting in BP is not tantamount to bunting in a game situation, in fact, it's about the same as comparing playing long toss to trying to make a perfect relay throw to the plate to cut down a runner.
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<!--quoteo(post=52720:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:18 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 28 2009, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52719:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:08 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Jul 28 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52718:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 28 2009, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52717:date=Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Jul 28 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Butch, did you ever play baseball? Bunting is the easiest task on the planet. He should have made contact. PERIOD.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I played little league. But I never had to bunt a 95 mph fastball.
If bunting is the "easiest task on the planet," why do major league players fuck it up on a pretty regular basis?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't be intentionally dense. You may not have had to bunt a 95 MPH fastball, but every professional player has. That is relative, and you know it.
He should have made contact. Everyone should have made contact. He's been bunting since he was 6. It's not like he was summoned to come in a pitch that inning.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it's such an automatic play, then why doesn't every manager call on their batter to lay down a bunt with a runner on third with less than two outs? It should be a free run every time, right?
Can you think of the last time you saw Fontenot try to bunt in a game situation? That's the first time I've ever seen it. The vast majority of ML players never bunt a baseball in a game situation. What do you think Fontenot's ratio of fly balls to bunts is in his career? 200:1? 300:1? Higher?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fontenot has one sacrifice bunt this year, he had 3 last year. So yes, he can bunt.
I agree you put your players in situations to be successful but this was not out of Fontenot's skill set. If the ball was down and in or way outside then I think you have an argument, but the ball was right down the middle. Like I said earlier, it was a lack of fundamentals because he didn't square up right away and therefor was not prepared to make contact.
You can't send Blanco up because then the squeeze is painfully obvious.
It was a good call, poor execution.
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