Harden and Heilman Claimed on Waivers

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=60669:date=Aug 28 2009, 06:46 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Aug 28 2009, 06:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60618:date=Aug 28 2009, 02:42 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Aug 28 2009, 02:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60616:date=Aug 28 2009, 02:39 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Aug 28 2009, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60536:date=Aug 28 2009, 08:49 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Aug 28 2009, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60485:date=Aug 27 2009, 07:45 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Aug 27 2009, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Why not Grabow?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think he would be most important to trade on the roster. There's no way we're getting draft picks for him as a type A.
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I want to keep him.
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Why pay him 3 million a year when we can pay Gaub, Parker, Stevens, and others a fraction of that?
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because it's entirely possible that those guys are gonna suck?
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Exactly, what you and Coldneck said. Grabow's been a rock solid MLB reliever the last couple years, and you know what you're getting with him. We have so many coin flips in the pen, I like having a guy like that, especially a veteran. Right now it's looking like Marmol and Guzman late. We need somebody like Grabow for the 7th/8th inning.

I like how all of those guys Scarey mentioned are doing, and have really liked what I've seen from Stevens. Regardless, they're not going to be pitching past 6th inning situations for a couple years with the Cubs.

[Ace]

Guys - all the reasons you want to keep Grabow are all the reasons he's going to want a multi-year deal.

If there's one area the Cubs farm system is well-stocked, it's with bullpen arms. No need to give Grabow - an aging reliever - a multi-year deal. I'm with Scarey. Deal Grabow.

[Brock]

It's never a very good idea to spend a lot of money on middle relief.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=60624:date=Aug 28 2009, 02:06 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Aug 28 2009, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60621:date=Aug 28 2009, 02:53 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 28 2009, 02:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Grabow has proven to be an effective major leaguer. Those you've mentioned have not. That's why.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Antonio Alfonseca
Mike Remlinger
LaTroy Hawkins
Kent Mercker
Scott Williamson
Bob Howry
Scott Eyre
Kevin Gregg

These guys were all proven major leaguers when the Cubs traded for them or signed them to big contracts. What's your opinion of them?
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Everybody there but Alfonseca and Gregg were very good in the majority of their time with the Cubs. And the Cubs signed Williamson to a minor league deal.

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=60673:date=Aug 28 2009, 10:31 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Aug 28 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's never a very good idea to spend a lot of money on middle relief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People say that and then bitch endlessly when unproven pitchers play like shit. I'm not saying that the bullpen should be nothing but high price veterans, but it's worth having a few proven relievers.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=60675:date=Aug 28 2009, 10:46 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Aug 28 2009, 10:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60673:date=Aug 28 2009, 10:31 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Aug 28 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's never a very good idea to spend a lot of money on middle relief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People say that and then bitch endlessly when unproven pitchers play like shit. I'm not saying that the bullpen should be nothing but high price veterans, but it's worth having a few proven relievers.
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Absolutely - but, middle relievers, and to an extent setup men, are the most volatile players in terms of performance in all of baseball. It's tough to justify spending big money on more than two or three relievers when you've got as many as 10 youngsters that could possibly contribute.

Spend on a closer, spend on a top set up man or two. But beyond that, it's always better to just let the kids and journeymen handle the middle relief.

Maybe Grabow can be that top setup man/closer that's worth paying for. But I'm lukewarm on the guy.

[Brock]

<!--quoteo(post=60675:date=Aug 28 2009, 09:46 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Aug 28 2009, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60673:date=Aug 28 2009, 10:31 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Aug 28 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's never a very good idea to spend a lot of money on middle relief.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People say that and then bitch endlessly when unproven pitchers play like shit. I'm not saying that the bullpen should be nothing but high price veterans, but it's worth having a few proven relievers.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But is it worth overpaying for mediocrity? Is it worth forgoing an upgrade at say, SS, to throw money at a John Grabow type who may not do any better than a young guy making the league minimum?

[Coldneck]

ESPN Chicago's Bruce Levine heard from major league sources Monday that Rich Harden will not be traded to the Twins.

Cubs right-hander Aaron Heilman, who was claimed off waivers by the Giants last week, will also stay put in Chicago. The Cubs had an opportunity here to dump salary and pick up a few prospects, but the Twins probably weren't willing to part with any of their top talent. Harden, 27, is set to become a Type A free agent in the fall. He is 8-7 this season with a 3.99 ERA in 22 starts.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=60834:date=Aug 31 2009, 12:09 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 31 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->ESPN Chicago's Bruce Levine heard from major league sources Monday that Rich Harden will not be traded to the Twins.

Cubs right-hander Aaron Heilman, who was claimed off waivers by the Giants last week, will also stay put in Chicago. The Cubs had an opportunity here to dump salary and pick up a few prospects, but the Twins probably weren't willing to part with any of their top talent. Harden, 27, is set to become a Type A free agent in the fall. He is 8-7 this season with a 3.99 ERA in 22 starts.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Good. Now if the Cubs don't offer him arbitration, Hendry should be shot.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=60836:date=Aug 31 2009, 12:12 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Aug 31 2009, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=60834:date=Aug 31 2009, 12:09 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 31 2009, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->ESPN Chicago's Bruce Levine heard from major league sources Monday that Rich Harden will not be traded to the Twins.

Cubs right-hander Aaron Heilman, who was claimed off waivers by the Giants last week, will also stay put in Chicago. The Cubs had an opportunity here to dump salary and pick up a few prospects, but the Twins probably weren't willing to part with any of their top talent. Harden, 27, is set to become a Type A free agent in the fall. He is 8-7 this season with a 3.99 ERA in 22 starts.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Good. Now if the Cubs don't offer him arbitration, Hendry should be shot.
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Absolutely.

The line about "dumping salary" is pretty laughable though. We have 1 month left, and dumping these guys does nothing to free payroll beyond 2009.

[Fella]

There is no way we offer him Arbitration, just sayin, so if you want Hendry shot if they don't, shoot him now.

I still don't think its a big deal. Technically we are still only 5 games out of the wildcard, I don't think Hendry wanted to show he was throwing in the towel, even though he probably should have. The prospects we got back for 1 month of these guys were probably mediocre at best, and like Rok said, we wouldn't be saving much salary at all.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=60852:date=Aug 31 2009, 02:55 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Aug 31 2009, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There is no way we offer him Arbitration, just sayin, so if you want Hendry shot if they don't, shoot him now.

I still don't think its a big deal. Technically we are still only 5 games out of the wildcard, I don't think Hendry wanted to show he was throwing in the towel, even though he probably should have. The prospects we got back for 1 month of these guys were probably mediocre at best, and like Rok said, we wouldn't be saving much salary at all.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


What risk is there in offering Harden arbitration? He's obviously healthy right now, I wouldn't mind seeing him accept and stay a Cub for at least another year. I just think there's no way of that happening and the 2 draft picks would be great.

[The Dude]

<!--quoteo(post=60852:date=Aug 31 2009, 02:55 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Aug 31 2009, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There is no way we offer him Arbitration, just sayin, so if you want Hendry shot if they don't, shoot him now.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Why would we not?

we only have to commit one year for $10-12 Million.

or

he turns us down and we get two picks.

Either of those are better than losing him and getting nothing.

[rok]

Yeah, I agree with the last 2 posts. If we don't offer Harden arbitration, then we should have just traded him for something, anything, unless we do intend to sign him up for a couple of seasons. I just can't imagine us locking up another injury risk for more than a season though. The risk in arbitration is pretty low for us IMO.

[Fella]

I just don't think there is anyway we would risk having to pay him 10 mil next year, guess we will see.