Our farm system

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=65801:date=Oct 7 2009, 11:52 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 7 2009, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Maybe he waxes.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Wax on....whacks off...

[kbwsb]

We got lucky on this one.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Eric (Tampa)

Jim-How do draft tiebreakers work? I noticed that the Rays got the 16 pick, aka the first non protected pick, but also that because the Cubs didn't have to make up a game, they played one less. Did that one non made up game effect what the Rays will do in free agency? Thanks!
Jim Callis (2:09 PM)

There's no tiebreaker in that case. The Rays finished with a higher winning percentage (.519 to .516), so the Cubs get the higher pick. If two teams have the same record, the club with the worst record the previous year gets the better pick.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[kbwsb]

Good news

D<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->ave (Thousand Oaks, CA):
Jim, would you say the Cubs' farm system is better, worse, or about the same as it was last year at this time?

Jim Callis :
Better. Several players took a step forward, most notably <b>Starlin Castro</b>. He's one of the game's best unheralded prospects.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Scarey]

Over the past few days, BA has been releasing top 20 lists from each league. I stole these lists off of NSBBs minor league forums. Keep in mind that these lists are made up by one writer for each of the top 20. These writers also followed up with questions from fans in BA chats and were able to clarify selections and what not.

Arizona league top 20 (AZL Cubs)
1. Mike Trout, of, Angels
2. Fabio Martinez, rhp, Angels
3. Allen Webster, rhp, Dodgers
4. Rymer Liriano, of, Padres
5. Randal Grichuk, of, Angels
6. Julio Morban, of/dh, Mariners
7. Adys Portillo, rhp, Padres
8. Rafael Rodriguez, of, Giants
9. Jonathan Garcia, of, Dodgers
10. Jon Bachanov, rhp, Angels
11. Maverick Lasker, rhp, Brewers
12. Richard Alvarez, rhp, Rangers
13. Edward Concepcion, rhp, Giants
14. Jesus Brito, 3b, Indians
15. Hector Sanchez, c, Giants
16. Tomas Telis, c, Rangers
17. Rolando Gomez, ss, Angels
18. Jonathan Galves, ss/2b, Padres
19. Danny Danielson, rhp, Dodgers
20. Max Walla, of, Brewers

No Cubs, but it's worth mentioning that BA said 2009 Cubs draft pick <b>Austin Kirk </b>would have made the list if he had logged enough innings there.

Northwest League top 20 (Boise Hawks)
<b>1. Hak-Ju Lee, ss, Boise (Cubs)</b>
2. Edinson Rincon, 3b, Eugene (Padres)
<b>3. Brett Jackson, of, Boise (Cubs)</b>
4. Mario Martinez, 3b, Everett (Mariners)
5. Tim Wheeler, of, Tri-City (Rockies)
6. Ryan Wheeler, 3b, Yakima (Diamondbacks)
7. Robbie Ross, lhp, Spokane (Rangers)
8. Francisco Peguero, of, Salem-Keizer (Giants)
9. Matt Davidson, 3b, Yakima (Diamondbacks)
10. Miguel Velazquez, of, Spokane (Rangers)
11. Tommy Mendonca, 3b, Spokane (Rangers)
12. James Jones, of, Everett (Mariners)
13. Chris Dominguez, 3b, Salem-Keizer (Giants)
14. Julio Ramos, lhp, Vancouver (Athletics)
15. Rob Scahill, rhp, Tri-City (Rockies)
16. Ben Paulsen, 1b, Tri-City (Rockies)
17. Jerry Sullivan, rhp, Eugene (Padres)
18. Connor Hoehn, rhp, Vancouver (Athletics)
<b>19. Logan Watkins, 2b, Boise (Cubs)</b>20. Braden Tullis, rhp, Spokane (Rangers)

Having two of the top three prospects is pretty damn impressive even if it's only at rookie ball.

Midwest League top 20 (Peoria Chiefs)
1. Aaron Hicks, of, Beloit (Twins)
2. Dee Gordon, ss, Great Lakes (Dodgers)
<b>3. Josh Vitters, 3b, Peoria (Cubs)</b>
4. Brett Lawrie, 2b, Wisconsin (Brewers)
5. Mike Montgomery, lhp, Burlington (Royals)
6. Casey Crosby, lhp, West Michigan (Tigers)
7. Simon Castro, rhp, Fort Wayne (Padres)
8. Jaff Decker, of, Fort Wayne (Padres)
9. Cody Scarpetta, rhp, Wisconsin (Brewers)
10. Ethan Martin, rhp, Great Lakes (Dodgers)
11. Tim Melville, rhp, Burlington (Royals)
12. Eric Hosmer, 1b, Burlington (Royals)
13. A.J. Pollock, of, South Bend (Diamondbacks)
14. Wily Peralta, rhp, Wisconsin (Brewers)
15. James Darnell, 3b, Fort Wayne (Padres)
<b>16. Chris Archer, rhp, Peoria (Cubs)</b>
17. Kyle Russell, of, Great Lakes (Dodgers)
18. Grant Desme, of, Kane County (Athletics)
19. Pedro Figueroa, lhp, Kane County (Athletics)
<b>20. Chris Carpenter, rhp, Peoria (Cubs)</b>

This list was a little screwy to a lot of people I've seen discuss it. The glaring omission was <b>Kyler Burke </b>who had arguably the best season of anyone in the Midwest league. Also, from what I know, <b>Vitters </b>should have easily been ahead of both Hicks and Gordon even though there were other non-Cubs that should be on the list ahead of <b>Vitters</b>.


Florida State League (Daytona Cubs)

1. Mike Stanton, of, Jupiter (Marlins)
2. Jesus Montero, c, Tampa (Yankees)
3. Domonic Brown, of, Clearwater (Phillies)
4. Yonder Alonso, 1b, Sarasota (Reds)
5. Kyle Drabek, rhp, Clearwater (Phillies)
<b>6. Starlin Castro, ss, Daytona (Cubs)</b>
7. Jenrry Mejia, rhp, St. Lucie (Mets)
8. Ben Revere, of, Fort Myers (Twins)
9. Ike Davis, 1b, St. Lucie (Mets)
10. Austin Romine, c, Tampa (Yankees)
11. Carlos Gutierrez, rhp, Fort Myers (Twins)
12. Matt Dominguez, 3b, Jupiter (Marlins)
13. Kirk Nieuwenhuis, of, St. Lucie (Mets)
<b>14. Josh Vitters, 3b, Daytona (Cubs)</b>
15. David Bromberg, rhp, Fort Myers (Twins)
16. Caleb Gindl, of, Brevard County (Brewers)
17. Chris Parmelee, 1b, Fort Myers (Twins)
18. Shane Peterson, of, Palm Beach (Cardinals)
19. Freddy Galvis, ss, Clearwater (Phillies)
20. Mark Rogers, rhp, Brevard County (Brewers)

This is a pretty good showing because all the guys ahead of Vitters are top 50 prospects. Also, in a chat session the guy that constructed the list said that <b>Jackson </b>and <b>Cashner </b>both would have made the list if they had enough IPs here. <b>Vitters </b>was pretty much picked because of his potential, because he didn't perform very well in the Florida State league and was also injured.



Southern League (Tennessee Smokies)
1. Jason Heyward, of, Mississippi (Braves)
2. Gordon Beckham, ss, Birmingham (White Sox)
3. Desmond Jennings, of, Montgomery (Rays)
4. Mike Stanton, of, Jacksonville (Marlins)
5. Jarrod Parker, rhp, Mobile (Diamondbacks)
6. Tyler Flowers, c, Birmingham (White Sox)
7. Logan Morrison, 1b, Jacksonville (Marlins)
8. Freddie Freeman, 1b, Misssissippi (Braves)
9. Jeremy Hellickson, rhp, Montgomery (Rays)
10. Josh Bell, 3b, Chattanooga (Dodgers)
<b>11. Jay Jackson, rhp, Tennessee (Cubs)</b>
12. Todd Frazier, of/2b/1b, Carolina (Reds)
13. Jonathan Lucroy, c, Huntsville (Brewers)
14. Chris Heisey, of, Carolina (Reds)
15. Dan Hudson, rhp, Birmingham (White Sox)
16. Jordan Danks, of, Birmingham (White Sox)
17. Sean West, lhp, Jacksonville (Marlins)
18. Andrew Lambo, of, Chattanooga (Dodgers)
19. Daniel Schlereth, lhp, Mobile (Diamondbacks)
20. Travis Wood, lhp, Carolina (Reds)

<b>Jackson </b>is the only guy on the list here although many felt like Cashner should have been on here too. He struggled at Tennessee, but it wasn't horrible. BA is saying he was held off the list because they still project him to be a reliever and weren't impressed by the amount of innings and Ks/9 he had.

Iowa will probably not have anyone on the list for them, but it hasn't been released yet.

Really, it's a pretty good showing for the Cubs. BA is pretty impressed with our prospects and I think we could sneak 4-6 guys on the top 100 list. The top 100 probably won't be out till February.

[savant]

What Wilken has done with three drafts has been pretty impressive. The big thing is we are now getting into the position that when teams are looking to unload players we have close to major league ready prospects who are well thought of throughout the league to make trades. As a big market team we should not have that many cases where we are going into seasons with rookies starting for us but, we can use the minor leaguers in trades to acquire proven major league talent without overpaying on the free agent market. I really believe that to have a consistent winning major league team, we have to have a consistently good minor league system.

[Scarey]

While I agree with the general point of your post Savant, I still think we need to churn out some of our own players. Proven vets cost money, and while I don't mind that the Cubs spend, they can only spend so much.

[savant]

<!--quoteo(post=66010:date=Oct 8 2009, 03:14 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 8 2009, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->While I agree with the general point of your post Savant, I still think we need to churn out some of our own players. Proven vets cost money, and while I don't mind that the Cubs spend, they can only spend so much.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They have to be truly special prospects, fifth starters or middle relievers as far as I am concerned. They can also be used as bench players and depth for the major league team. Rookies just so rarely ever make an impact when you are counting on them, that I would never want to see us going into a season relying on more than rookie as a starter. We have had good luck recently with Soto and Wells.

I am just really starting to have a hard time backing any free agent signings. Soriano, Fukudome, Marquis and Bradley, are all horrible contracts on some level. It just seems the entire concept of free agency just insures that you are going to overpay. Lilly, and DeRosa were good signings. Also, as we move further away from the steroid era it really seems like players in the 28-32 year old range are going to be more and more important.

[Scarey]

Yeah, that's a pretty good approach. The other type of player we need to develop are the up-the-middle types. It's so hard to acquire a good catcher, shortstop, and to an extent centerfielder. Second base isn't very easy either.

That's why I'm very happy to see the emphasis that Wilken has had on targetting the middle infield spots. It's great to have depth at shortstop. We have a few decent players at catcher, Castillo and Clevenger. Burreal could turn into a decent prospect and if that fuckhead from Venezuela, Wilson Contreras, stops juicing, he has a lot of potential. I'm still holding out hope for Brandon Guyer in centerfield. He struggled at AA, but he's a great defender and raked when going back to the Florida State League. Na could be a special player in centerfielder, but we'll have to see if his $750,000 bonus is worth while. Oh yeah, and that Jackson dude. He looks like he might be a pretty good centerfielder.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=66018:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, that's a pretty good approach. The other type of player we need to develop are the up-the-middle types. It's so hard to acquire a good catcher, shortstop, and to an extent centerfielder. Second base isn't very easy either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that 100%. If you look at all the best teams in baseball, they are all solid up the middle. You really can't have a good defensive team without emphasizing C, SS and CF, and if you have a lot of turnover in those areas, it makes it doubly tough to win year in and year out. I like the direction the organization is going in that regard.

[savant]

<!--quoteo(post=66019:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66018:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, that's a pretty good approach. The other type of player we need to develop are the up-the-middle types. It's so hard to acquire a good catcher, shortstop, and to an extent centerfielder. Second base isn't very easy either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that 100%. If you look at all the best teams in baseball, they are all solid up the middle. You really can't have a good defensive team without emphasizing C, SS and CF, and if you have a lot of turnover in those areas, it makes it doubly tough to win year in and year out. I like the direction the organization is going in that regard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a small pet peeve of mine, but there is almost no difference defensively between a shortstop and a secondbaseman. The amount of chances on a year to year basis is very similar, and really the only difference is that the shortstop has to have more arm, although a secondbaseman needs a lot of arm for making plays to his right.

[Ace]

After three or four years in the bottom ten farm systems, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see the Cubs in the top half this year.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=66026:date=Oct 8 2009, 07:19 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ Oct 8 2009, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66019:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66018:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, that's a pretty good approach. The other type of player we need to develop are the up-the-middle types. It's so hard to acquire a good catcher, shortstop, and to an extent centerfielder. Second base isn't very easy either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that 100%. If you look at all the best teams in baseball, they are all solid up the middle. You really can't have a good defensive team without emphasizing C, SS and CF, and if you have a lot of turnover in those areas, it makes it doubly tough to win year in and year out. I like the direction the organization is going in that regard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a small pet peeve of mine, but there is almost no difference defensively between a shortstop and a secondbaseman. The amount of chances on a year to year basis is very similar, and really the only difference is that the shortstop has to have more arm, although a secondbaseman needs a lot of arm for making plays to his right.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me it isn't just having a stronger arm, but the SS needs to be athletic enough and have the right instincts to be able to turn some of the tougher DPs on a daily basis. For example, Theriot blows at that.

[savant]

<!--quoteo(post=66028:date=Oct 8 2009, 07:53 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66026:date=Oct 8 2009, 07:19 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Oct 8 2009, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66019:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66018:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, that's a pretty good approach. The other type of player we need to develop are the up-the-middle types. It's so hard to acquire a good catcher, shortstop, and to an extent centerfielder. Second base isn't very easy either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that 100%. If you look at all the best teams in baseball, they are all solid up the middle. You really can't have a good defensive team without emphasizing C, SS and CF, and if you have a lot of turnover in those areas, it makes it doubly tough to win year in and year out. I like the direction the organization is going in that regard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a small pet peeve of mine, but there is almost no difference defensively between a shortstop and a secondbaseman. The amount of chances on a year to year basis is very similar, and really the only difference is that the shortstop has to have more arm, although a secondbaseman needs a lot of arm for making plays to his right.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me it isn't just having a stronger arm, but the SS needs to be athletic enough and have the right instincts to be able to turn some of the tougher DPs on a daily basis. For example, Theriot blows at that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, I just don't think Theriot would be a much better second baseman.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=66032:date=Oct 8 2009, 08:01 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ Oct 8 2009, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66028:date=Oct 8 2009, 07:53 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66026:date=Oct 8 2009, 07:19 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Oct 8 2009, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66019:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66018:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, that's a pretty good approach. The other type of player we need to develop are the up-the-middle types. It's so hard to acquire a good catcher, shortstop, and to an extent centerfielder. Second base isn't very easy either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that 100%. If you look at all the best teams in baseball, they are all solid up the middle. You really can't have a good defensive team without emphasizing C, SS and CF, and if you have a lot of turnover in those areas, it makes it doubly tough to win year in and year out. I like the direction the organization is going in that regard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a small pet peeve of mine, but there is almost no difference defensively between a shortstop and a secondbaseman. The amount of chances on a year to year basis is very similar, and really the only difference is that the shortstop has to have more arm, although a secondbaseman needs a lot of arm for making plays to his right.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me it isn't just having a stronger arm, but the SS needs to be athletic enough and have the right instincts to be able to turn some of the tougher DPs on a daily basis. For example, Theriot blows at that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, I just don't think Theriot would be a much better second baseman.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I sorta disagree. His shitty arm is made for 2b, plus the second baseman has a lot more leeway when it comes to bobbling balls, or knocking them down. SS usually has ONE shot at making a play. Pretty much everywhere else on the IF can screw up and still get the guy out.

[savant]

<!--quoteo(post=66045:date=Oct 8 2009, 08:28 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Oct 8 2009, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66032:date=Oct 8 2009, 08:01 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Oct 8 2009, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66028:date=Oct 8 2009, 07:53 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66026:date=Oct 8 2009, 07:19 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Oct 8 2009, 07:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66019:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 8 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=66018:date=Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 8 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, that's a pretty good approach. The other type of player we need to develop are the up-the-middle types. It's so hard to acquire a good catcher, shortstop, and to an extent centerfielder. Second base isn't very easy either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with that 100%. If you look at all the best teams in baseball, they are all solid up the middle. You really can't have a good defensive team without emphasizing C, SS and CF, and if you have a lot of turnover in those areas, it makes it doubly tough to win year in and year out. I like the direction the organization is going in that regard.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is a small pet peeve of mine, but there is almost no difference defensively between a shortstop and a secondbaseman. The amount of chances on a year to year basis is very similar, and really the only difference is that the shortstop has to have more arm, although a secondbaseman needs a lot of arm for making plays to his right.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To me it isn't just having a stronger arm, but the SS needs to be athletic enough and have the right instincts to be able to turn some of the tougher DPs on a daily basis. For example, Theriot blows at that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agree, I just don't think Theriot would be a much better second baseman.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I sorta disagree. His shitty arm is made for 2b, plus the second baseman has a lot more leeway when it comes to bobbling balls, or knocking them down. SS usually has ONE shot at making a play. Pretty much everywhere else on the IF can screw up and still get the guy out.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a very good point BT, my main problem with Theriot is I don't understand his total lack of range. I really don't think his arm is as bad as the reputation it has. If he can be the .380 OBP guy, I can live with him, but at .330 I have a hard time with him being a starter.