Time to play GM

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=65750:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:07 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 7 2009, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65749:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:05 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 7 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65745:date=Oct 7 2009, 07:43 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7 2009, 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've heard that Cabrera is good in the clubhouse. I guess it just depends on if the team is winning for not.

As for the errors thing, I'm guessing that his range is excellent compared to Theriot at SS. Most of his errors are on throws, for which we have a guy at first that is notorious for cutting those down.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A broomstick with a bucket overturned on its top has better range than Theriot, so it shouldn't be all that hard to upgrade in that department. Theriot has him beat in pretty much everything else, though.
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But this isn't about replacing Theriot. It's about Theriot replacing Fontenot and Cabrera becoming the SS. There's nothing about adding Cabrera and purging Fontenot that makes this team worse.
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I don't disagree with this:

Cabrera + Theriot > Theriot + Fontenot

But I'm just not overly impressed with Cabrera for many reasons. If we're going for an high-defense, light-bat SS, then we could go cheaper and younger than O-Cab.

[Coach]

<!--quoteo(post=65751:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:08 AM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Oct 7 2009, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The problem is that unless we're looking for a trade, you won't find an available free agent SS that has both better range than Theriot and is a better hitter (OBP/OPS).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's what Ruby is trying to say.

His offense would be replacing Fontenot's.
His defense would replace Theirot's.

[1060Ivy]

<!--quoteo(post=65677:date=Oct 6 2009, 06:03 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 06:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65653:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:43 PM:name=1060Ivy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Oct 6 2009, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wells did a great job this year but I can't really see how you can rely on him for anything better than a #5 as a starter next year.

The guy appears to either give up 4 or more runs per start or has an amazing game. It seems like almost 1/3 of his games (8 of 27 games), Randy has these "I just don't have it" games. In that respect he reminds me of Harden. The difference is that Harden had overpowering stuff, is a strikeout pitcher and has a reputation built on experience.

Wells relies on location and changing speeds which was enough for guys like Maddux but let's face it, Randy Wells is not the second coming of Maddux.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


So you're saying the only one that can get by with locating pitches and changing speeds is Maddux? There's no in-between from Maddux---->sucks?

You say he gave up 4 runs or more in 7 out of 27 games? That's good, especially for a fourth starter.

18 out of 27 games this year he went 6 innings and gave up 3 runs or fewer. I know you guys have built up high expectations for 4 and 5 starters because of our 2004 and 2008 rotations, but look around the league. Almost every team out there would be lucky to have Wells as their 4th starter.
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I just don't count on Wells being able to repeat/improve on this season's results. Have no issue with him as a #5 starter but I don't expect him to win 10 or more games next season.

[Coach]

<!--quoteo(post=65753:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:11 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 7 2009, 09:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65750:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:07 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 7 2009, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65749:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:05 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 7 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65745:date=Oct 7 2009, 07:43 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7 2009, 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've heard that Cabrera is good in the clubhouse. I guess it just depends on if the team is winning for not.

As for the errors thing, I'm guessing that his range is excellent compared to Theriot at SS. Most of his errors are on throws, for which we have a guy at first that is notorious for cutting those down.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A broomstick with a bucket overturned on its top has better range than Theriot, so it shouldn't be all that hard to upgrade in that department. Theriot has him beat in pretty much everything else, though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But this isn't about replacing Theriot. It's about Theriot replacing Fontenot and Cabrera becoming the SS. There's nothing about adding Cabrera and purging Fontenot that makes this team worse.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't disagree with this:

Cabrera + Theriot > Theriot + Fontenot

But I'm just not overly impressed with Cabrera for many reasons. If we're going for an high-defense, light-bat SS, then we could go cheaper and younger than O-Cab.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like who, that are available?

[Scarey]

I'm still in favor of grabbing Scutaro in free agency as long as he doesn't want 4+ mill per year over 3 years. Jack Wilson wouldn't be a bad pick either IMO. Something about Cabrera tells me his defense just isn't what it used to be, and it's not just the errors.

[Coldneck]

Cabrera's age is a huge concern. I really don't think he offers much more than Andres Blanco with the bat and Blanco is light years better in the field. Significantly cheaper too.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=65761:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cabrera's age is a huge concern. I really don't think he offers much more than Andres Blanco with the bat and Blanco is light years better in the field. Significantly cheaper too.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing though. I'd be fine with a light-hitting slick-fielding SS as long as we had an above average bat at 2B, which we don't have right now and probably won't go out and get one. Either way, we need to improve our defensive and offensive consistency up the middle. That should be Hendry's #1 goal, but he's probably just going to spend the offseason chasing some elusive run producer for the middle of the order. Whoever that ends up being, he'd better be able to field his position and play either CF or SS.

[SandbergMVP1984]

<!--quoteo(post=65750:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:07 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 7 2009, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65749:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:05 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 7 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65745:date=Oct 7 2009, 07:43 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7 2009, 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've heard that Cabrera is good in the clubhouse. I guess it just depends on if the team is winning for not.

As for the errors thing, I'm guessing that his range is excellent compared to Theriot at SS. Most of his errors are on throws, for which we have a guy at first that is notorious for cutting those down.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A broomstick with a bucket overturned on its top has better range than Theriot, so it shouldn't be all that hard to upgrade in that department. Theriot has him beat in pretty much everything else, though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But this isn't about replacing Theriot. It's about Theriot replacing Fontenot and Cabrera becoming the SS. There's nothing about adding Cabrera and purging Fontenot that makes this team worse.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, yes. The important question is, who is replacing DeRosa.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=65763:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM:name=Sandberg)-->QUOTE (Sandberg @ Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65750:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:07 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 7 2009, 08:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65749:date=Oct 7 2009, 08:05 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 7 2009, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65745:date=Oct 7 2009, 07:43 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 7 2009, 07:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've heard that Cabrera is good in the clubhouse. I guess it just depends on if the team is winning for not.

As for the errors thing, I'm guessing that his range is excellent compared to Theriot at SS. Most of his errors are on throws, for which we have a guy at first that is notorious for cutting those down.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A broomstick with a bucket overturned on its top has better range than Theriot, so it shouldn't be all that hard to upgrade in that department. Theriot has him beat in pretty much everything else, though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But this isn't about replacing Theriot. It's about Theriot replacing Fontenot and Cabrera becoming the SS. There's nothing about adding Cabrera and purging Fontenot that makes this team worse.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, yes. The important question is, who is replacing DeRosa.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeff Baker.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=65761:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I really don't think he offers much more than Andres Blanco with the bat and Blanco is light years better in the field.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This whole statement is basically wrong.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=65762:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65761:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cabrera's age is a huge concern. I really don't think he offers much more than Andres Blanco with the bat and Blanco is light years better in the field. Significantly cheaper too.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing though. I'd be fine with a light-hitting slick-fielding SS as long as we had an above average bat at 2B, which we don't have right now and probably won't go out and get one. Either way, we need to improve our defensive and offensive consistency up the middle. That should be Hendry's #1 goal, but he's probably just going to spend the offseason chasing some elusive run producer for the middle of the order. Whoever that ends up being, he'd better be able to field his position and play either CF or SS.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or catcher.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=65766:date=Oct 7 2009, 10:03 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 7 2009, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65762:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65761:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cabrera's age is a huge concern. I really don't think he offers much more than Andres Blanco with the bat and Blanco is light years better in the field. Significantly cheaper too.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing though. I'd be fine with a light-hitting slick-fielding SS as long as we had an above average bat at 2B, which we don't have right now and probably won't go out and get one. Either way, we need to improve our defensive and offensive consistency up the middle. That should be Hendry's #1 goal, but he's probably just going to spend the offseason chasing some elusive run producer for the middle of the order. Whoever that ends up being, he'd better be able to field his position and play either CF or SS.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or catcher.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've thought about that as well, but I just think the higher ups feel Soto deserves one more chance to earn the everyday job again. The one thing we could do to improve that situation is go out and get a really good backup at C. That wouldn't be the end of the world, but we need to forget about having a .285/ 25 HR/ 85 RBI guy at that position, because chances are Soto isn't that guy.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=65767:date=Oct 7 2009, 10:09 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 7 2009, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65766:date=Oct 7 2009, 10:03 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 7 2009, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65762:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65761:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cabrera's age is a huge concern. I really don't think he offers much more than Andres Blanco with the bat and Blanco is light years better in the field. Significantly cheaper too.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing though. I'd be fine with a light-hitting slick-fielding SS as long as we had an above average bat at 2B, which we don't have right now and probably won't go out and get one. Either way, we need to improve our defensive and offensive consistency up the middle. That should be Hendry's #1 goal, but he's probably just going to spend the offseason chasing some elusive run producer for the middle of the order. Whoever that ends up being, he'd better be able to field his position and play either CF or SS.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or catcher.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've thought about that as well, but I just think the higher ups feel Soto deserves one more chance to earn the everyday job again. The one thing we could do to improve that situation is go out and get a really good backup at C. That wouldn't be the end of the world, but we need to forget about having a .285/ 25 HR/ 85 RBI guy at that position, because chances are Soto isn't that guy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

We have a really good backup at catcher.

[Rappster]

<!--quoteo(post=65579:date=Oct 6 2009, 02:16 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ Oct 6 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With Shark, if he ever gets it it will be like a light switch going on. I am not sold on the fact that he ever will really get it. Just keep in mind that compared to the average first or second year major league pitcher he probably doesn't have half as many innings pitched during his lifetime.

Wells is a good example of what could happen with Shark, but if we were able to get good value back for Wells I would move him. He just makes me a bit nervous.


I want Reyes from the Mets.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Reyes?

Me too...can't see it ever happening. He's loved out there...even with his surgery.

[Coach]

<!--quoteo(post=65769:date=Oct 7 2009, 11:14 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Oct 7 2009, 11:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65767:date=Oct 7 2009, 10:09 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 7 2009, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65766:date=Oct 7 2009, 10:03 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 7 2009, 10:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65762:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 7 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65761:date=Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Oct 7 2009, 09:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cabrera's age is a huge concern. I really don't think he offers much more than Andres Blanco with the bat and Blanco is light years better in the field. Significantly cheaper too.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the thing though. I'd be fine with a light-hitting slick-fielding SS as long as we had an above average bat at 2B, which we don't have right now and probably won't go out and get one. Either way, we need to improve our defensive and offensive consistency up the middle. That should be Hendry's #1 goal, but he's probably just going to spend the offseason chasing some elusive run producer for the middle of the order. Whoever that ends up being, he'd better be able to field his position and play either CF or SS.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or catcher.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I've thought about that as well, but I just think the higher ups feel Soto deserves one more chance to earn the everyday job again. The one thing we could do to improve that situation is go out and get a really good backup at C. That wouldn't be the end of the world, but we need to forget about having a .285/ 25 HR/ 85 RBI guy at that position, because chances are Soto isn't that guy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

We have a really good backup at catcher.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We do?