Cubs interested in Chapman...

[jstraw]

If I ever buy the Cubs, I will have my own philosophy about how it should be run and I'll have my own people taking over....unless my GM is someone I'm absolutely blessed to have and can't do without...he's gone. Just sayin'...

[Andy]

Who was the last Cuban defector that actually went on to be really good?

[Andy]

<!--quoteo(post=71908:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who was the last Cuban defector that actually went on to be really good?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Or international player for that matter? Ichiro has been a HOF'er. Other than that, I can't think of anyone that was above average.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=71907:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If I ever buy the Cubs, I will have my own philosophy about how it should be run and I'll have my own people taking over....unless my GM is someone I'm absolutely blessed to have and can't do without...he's gone. Just sayin'...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's precisely what I'm saying.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=71909:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:10 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71908:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who was the last Cuban defector that actually went on to be really good?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Or international player for that matter? Ichiro has been a HOF'er. Other than that, I can't think of anyone that was above average.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, Matsui just won the World Series MVP. And other than the years he has been hurt, his numbers have been a lot better than average.

[Andy]

<!--quoteo(post=71914:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:15 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 16 2009, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71909:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:10 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71908:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who was the last Cuban defector that actually went on to be really good?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Or international player for that matter? Ichiro has been a HOF'er. Other than that, I can't think of anyone that was above average.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, Matsui just won the World Series MVP. And other than the years he has been hurt, his numbers have been a lot better than average.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He's been above average. I'll give you that. So that's 2.

[Coldneck]

<!--quoteo(post=71909:date=Dec 16 2009, 01:10 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71908:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 12:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who was the last Cuban defector that actually went on to be really good?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Or international player for that matter? Ichiro has been a HOF'er. Other than that, I can't think of anyone that was above average.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not exactly sure what you mean because there are quite a few examples of international players being amazing. Look at all of the Dominicans, Venezuelan's, Puerto Rican's, and so on. I assume you are lumping Asians and Cubans into a seperate group.

Of that group there have been many that have stuck. Alexei Ramirez had a great rookie year but was down last year, Livan Hernandez was World Series mvp, El Duque was good for a while, Yunel Escobar is good, Jose Canseco is what he is, kendry Morales is coming into his own, Nomo was great for several years, Kaz Sasaki was a dominant closer in Seattle, Saito has been good, Kuo is good, and so on.

There have been just as many that have failed. I'm sure the percentage is similar to that of drafting an American player.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=71907:date=Dec 16 2009, 01:08 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 16 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If I ever buy the Cubs, I will have my own philosophy about how it should be run and I'll have my own people taking over....unless my GM is someone I'm absolutely blessed to have and can't do without...he's gone. Just sayin'...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You have to realize though that you could be throwing out a GM that had a team that won 97 games very recently for a GM that... ?

Who would you replace Hendry with? And why would that replacement automatically be better than a guy that recetly won 97 games?

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=71919:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There have been just as many that have failed. I'm sure the percentage is similar to that of drafting an American player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference is that usually only the most elite Cuban/Asian players get drafted (or signed) -- and usually only after they've played at an elite level in their league for several years.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=71921:date=Dec 16 2009, 01:30 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 16 2009, 01:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->the most elite Cuban/Asian players get drafted (or signed) -- and usually only after they've played at an elite level in their league for several years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Ignoring the fact that this isn't true (international free agent signings are usually 16-20 year olds), you could pretty much put the same statement on American/Canadian players.

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->the most elite American/Canadian players get drafted (or signed) -- and usually only after they've played at an elite level in college for several years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Andy]

<!--quoteo(post=71921:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:30 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 16 2009, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71919:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There have been just as many that have failed. I'm sure the percentage is similar to that of drafting an American player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference is that usually only the most elite Cuban/Asian players get drafted (or signed) -- and usually only after they've played at an elite level in their league for several years.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The difference is the initial price tag. You take a significant risk with signing established Asian players and Cuban defectors.

Also, of the list you gave Sean, I don't know that most of those players actually earned the pay they were given.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=71920:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:29 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 16 2009, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71907:date=Dec 16 2009, 01:08 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 16 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If I ever buy the Cubs, I will have my own philosophy about how it should be run and I'll have my own people taking over....unless my GM is someone I'm absolutely blessed to have and can't do without...he's gone. Just sayin'...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You have to realize though that you could be throwing out a GM that had a team that won 97 games very recently for a GM that... ?

Who would you replace Hendry with? And why would that replacement automatically be better than a guy that recetly won 97 games?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That was then, this is now. So we got to the playoffs a couple of times. Now we have these aging guys making ridiculous coin on the back ends of ludicrous contracts. It was a deal with the devil...it didn't pay off and now we're handcuffed. If a GM mortgages the future to contend, he better bring home the glory. He gambled and as far as I'm concerned, he lost.

The Bradley problem is kind of an excuse. We can't do anything because we can't move Bradley. Well, if Bradley wasn't such a bad signing to begin with...and I maintain that it was always a horrible idea then we would have cash to spend. He's just the latest in a series of albatross contracts.

It's not even just about the GM. I like the idea of a GM answerable of a director of baseball operations...a real baseball person. Raid the Red Sox...I dunno.

[Coldneck]

<!--quoteo(post=71923:date=Dec 16 2009, 01:39 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71921:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:30 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 16 2009, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71919:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There have been just as many that have failed. I'm sure the percentage is similar to that of drafting an American player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference is that usually only the most elite Cuban/Asian players get drafted (or signed) -- and usually only after they've played at an elite level in their league for several years.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The difference is the initial price tag. You take a significant risk with signing established Asian players and Cuban defectors.

Also, of the list you gave Sean, I don't know that most of those players actually earned the pay they were given.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't call me Sean unless you wanted a busted face.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=71927:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:45 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 16 2009, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71923:date=Dec 16 2009, 01:39 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71921:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:30 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 16 2009, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71919:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There have been just as many that have failed. I'm sure the percentage is similar to that of drafting an American player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference is that usually only the most elite Cuban/Asian players get drafted (or signed) -- and usually only after they've played at an elite level in their league for several years.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The difference is the initial price tag. You take a significant risk with signing established Asian players and Cuban defectors.

Also, of the list you gave Sean, I don't know that most of those players actually earned the pay they were given.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't call me Sean unless you wanted a busted face.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif[/img]

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=71927:date=Dec 16 2009, 01:45 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 16 2009, 01:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71923:date=Dec 16 2009, 01:39 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Dec 16 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71921:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:30 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 16 2009, 12:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71919:date=Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 16 2009, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There have been just as many that have failed. I'm sure the percentage is similar to that of drafting an American player.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The difference is that usually only the most elite Cuban/Asian players get drafted (or signed) -- and usually only after they've played at an elite level in their league for several years.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The difference is the initial price tag. You take a significant risk with signing established Asian players and Cuban defectors.

Also, of the list you gave Sean, I don't know that most of those players actually earned the pay they were given.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't call me Sean unless you wanted a busted face.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What's wrong with Sean? If he called you Penispolisher I could understand the hostility.