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<!--quoteo(post=72625:date=Dec 21 2009, 09:21 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Dec 21 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72624:date=Dec 21 2009, 09:19 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72620:date=Dec 21 2009, 08:38 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 21 2009, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ellsbury does not equal Fuld. I don't understand why people on this board put him in the 4th OFer category. Makes no sense to me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone's making Ellsbury out to be a 4th outfielder. I think Coach is just trying to say that he's not as god-like as he's made out to be. The guy has only gotten on base at a .350 clip. Don't get me wrong, I like .350 OBP. It's just not good enough for the hype that Ellsbury gets.
Now, the stolen base ability is quite an asset. But, I think you have to guage the realistic value of stolen bases. I think it can be very helpful but again is over hyped.
I've said it before, but I really would be fine with Fuld in center as half of a platoon. That being said, I would be happy to bring Gardner in. We could do much worse than Melky as well. Do the Cubs have anything the Yankees need?
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Do they still need bullpen arms? I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what the Yanks' needs are.
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Yankees have a ton of bullpen arms in the system, but we could use a legit set up man perhaps. I know Cash is looking for a starting pitcher, he's look at Sheets according to reports. I wouldn't want to deal Gardner, in fact I'd be pretty pissed off to deal off a guy with amazing defense and is almost an automatic stolen base. The problem with Gardner is he's in a Yankee lineup were everyone has power and he tries to jack one and messes up his swing. Once K-Long got it in place he went on a .380 streak and then broke his thumb. When he came back Melky was hitting so Brett didn't get much time at the end of the year. I'd rather trade Melky personally.
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I'm sure you would. Melky does nothing for me, but I'm sure the fact that he is a (average) switch-hitter impresses Hendry a great deal.
And welcome aboard, HugeUnit.
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<!--quoteo(post=72630:date=Dec 21 2009, 12:17 PM:name=TheHugeUnit)-->QUOTE (TheHugeUnit @ Dec 21 2009, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72625:date=Dec 21 2009, 09:21 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 21 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72624:date=Dec 21 2009, 09:19 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72620:date=Dec 21 2009, 08:38 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 21 2009, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ellsbury does not equal Fuld. I don't understand why people on this board put him in the 4th OFer category. Makes no sense to me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone's making Ellsbury out to be a 4th outfielder. I think Coach is just trying to say that he's not as god-like as he's made out to be. The guy has only gotten on base at a .350 clip. Don't get me wrong, I like .350 OBP. It's just not good enough for the hype that Ellsbury gets.
Now, the stolen base ability is quite an asset. But, I think you have to guage the realistic value of stolen bases. I think it can be very helpful but again is over hyped.
I've said it before, but I really would be fine with Fuld in center as half of a platoon. That being said, I would be happy to bring Gardner in. We could do much worse than Melky as well. Do the Cubs have anything the Yankees need?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do they still need bullpen arms? I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what the Yanks' needs are.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yankees have a ton of bullpen arms in the system, but we could use a legit set up man perhaps. I know Cash is looking for a starting pitcher, he's look at Sheets according to reports. I wouldn't want to deal Gardner, in fact I'd be pretty pissed off to deal off a guy with amazing defense and is almost an automatic stolen base. The problem with Gardner is he's in a Yankee lineup were everyone has power and he tries to jack one and messes up his swing. Once K-Long got it in place he went on a .380 streak and then broke his thumb. When he came back Melky was hitting so Brett didn't get much time at the end of the year. I'd rather trade Melky personally.
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How about John Grabow? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
Just out of curiosity, with Granderson aboard, how do guys like Gardner and Melky fit into your plan? I understand that depth is a great thing to have, but it seems to me those two would have more value in a trade for something of need rather than sitting on your bench most of the time. Would they be used for defensive replacements/ pinch runners? Or are you going to shift Granderson to a corner and play Gardner in CF?
Welcome aboard BTW. We find it nice to get an outsider's perspective, so feel free to make yourself at home.
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<!--quoteo(post=72635:date=Dec 21 2009, 12:26 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72630:date=Dec 21 2009, 12:17 PM:name=TheHugeUnit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheHugeUnit @ Dec 21 2009, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72625:date=Dec 21 2009, 09:21 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 21 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72624:date=Dec 21 2009, 09:19 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72620:date=Dec 21 2009, 08:38 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 21 2009, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ellsbury does not equal Fuld. I don't understand why people on this board put him in the 4th OFer category. Makes no sense to me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone's making Ellsbury out to be a 4th outfielder. I think Coach is just trying to say that he's not as god-like as he's made out to be. The guy has only gotten on base at a .350 clip. Don't get me wrong, I like .350 OBP. It's just not good enough for the hype that Ellsbury gets.
Now, the stolen base ability is quite an asset. But, I think you have to guage the realistic value of stolen bases. I think it can be very helpful but again is over hyped.
I've said it before, but I really would be fine with Fuld in center as half of a platoon. That being said, I would be happy to bring Gardner in. We could do much worse than Melky as well. Do the Cubs have anything the Yankees need?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do they still need bullpen arms? I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what the Yanks' needs are.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yankees have a ton of bullpen arms in the system, but we could use a legit set up man perhaps. I know Cash is looking for a starting pitcher, he's look at Sheets according to reports. I wouldn't want to deal Gardner, in fact I'd be pretty pissed off to deal off a guy with amazing defense and is almost an automatic stolen base. The problem with Gardner is he's in a Yankee lineup were everyone has power and he tries to jack one and messes up his swing. Once K-Long got it in place he went on a .380 streak and then broke his thumb. When he came back Melky was hitting so Brett didn't get much time at the end of the year. I'd rather trade Melky personally.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How about John Grabow? [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
Just out of curiosity, with Granderson aboard, how do guys like Gardner and Melky fit into your plan? I understand that depth is a great thing to have, but it seems to me those two would have more value in a trade for something of need rather than sitting on your bench most of the time. Would they be used for defensive replacements/ pinch runners? Or are you going to shift Granderson to a corner and play Gardner in CF?
Welcome aboard BTW. We find it nice to get an outsider's perspective, so feel free to make yourself at home.
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Lets say the Yankees end their offseason right now and make no moves whats so ever. Swisher is in right and Granderson is in center. LF is still open and we have three options, Hoffman, Cabrera and Gardner. I'd have to give it to Gardner. He could bat 9th and give us an extra leadoff hitter, the Yankees lineup turns around so much I can't really see a set position(like lead off hitter, clean up hitter, etc) in the lineup to be honest. Melky would be the 4th OF and spell each player accordingly. with Jackson traded, we don't have any OF prospects in the upper half of the system either so we don't have to worry about blocking anyone. No I don't want Grabow, I'm fine with the lefties we have in the bullpen, Marte and Dunn with WDLR in triple-A. Depth is never a bad thing I remember when there was talk about trading Swisher last year after we got Tex and had Nady in RF. Well when Nady went down, Swisher stepped up huge for us, but I'd still rather trade Melky.
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The Grabow trade idea was tongue in cheek. Let's just say that particular contract was not well received by a number of people here.
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Oh, and I beleive the Yankees offseason is over like I believe KB brings a Brazilian waxing kit around with him in the trunk of his car.
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<!--quoteo(post=72657:date=Dec 21 2009, 02:12 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, and I beleive the Yankees offseason is over like I believe KB brings a Brazilian waxing kit around with him in the trunk of his car.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Laugh if you must but one day he really is going to hunt down a Brazilian.
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<!--quoteo(post=72662:date=Dec 21 2009, 02:35 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 21 2009, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72657:date=Dec 21 2009, 02:12 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, and I beleive the Yankees offseason is over like I believe KB brings a Brazilian waxing kit around with him in the trunk of his car.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Laugh if you must but one day he really is going to hunt down a Brazilian.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How many is a Brazilion? A Brazilion what?
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=72657:date=Dec 21 2009, 03:12 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, and I beleive the Yankees offseason is over like I believe KB brings a Brazilian waxing kit around with him in the trunk of his car.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was just talking hypothetically
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->The Grabow trade idea was tongue in cheek. Let's just say that particular contract was not well received by a number of people here.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I figured no offense but I laughed when I saw that extenstion.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I laughed when I saw that extenstion.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what she...oh, nevermind.
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<!--quoteo(post=72662:date=Dec 21 2009, 02:35 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 21 2009, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72657:date=Dec 21 2009, 02:12 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, and I beleive the Yankees offseason is over like I believe KB brings a Brazilian waxing kit around with him in the trunk of his car.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Laugh if you must but one day he really is going to hunt down a Brazilian.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ironically, I'm good friends with a photog who works in Brazil frequently (even has a Brazilian fiance), and he claims I'd love it there because almost all the girls have lots of body hair.
Perhaps that's why waxing, or hair elimination, came to be called "Brazillian waxes"...because the females are so hirsute in that neck of the woods, that a number of them were getting waxed.
Anyway, back on subject: the Yankees have nobody that interests me (nobody tradable, that is...obviously I'd be happy with a Jeter/Mo Rivera for Theriot/Gregg trade.)
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=72733:date=Dec 22 2009, 01:44 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 22 2009, 01:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72662:date=Dec 21 2009, 02:35 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 21 2009, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72657:date=Dec 21 2009, 02:12 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 21 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, and I beleive the Yankees offseason is over like I believe KB brings a Brazilian waxing kit around with him in the trunk of his car.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Laugh if you must but one day he really is going to hunt down a Brazilian.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ironically, I'm good friends with a photog who works in Brazil frequently (even has a Brazilian fiance), and he claims I'd love it there because almost all the girls have lots of body hair.
Perhaps that's why waxing, or hair elimination, came to be called "Brazillian waxes"...because the females are so hirsute in that neck of the woods, that a number of them were getting waxed.
Anyway, back on subject: the Yankees have nobody that interests me (nobody tradable, that is...obviously I'd be happy with a Jeter/Mo Rivera for Theriot/Gregg trade.)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks Kb, I just threw up in my mouth a little thinking about hairy Brazilian muff.
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
- Butcher
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Keith Law's opinion on the top FA OFers. I think I'd rather make due with what we have than spend a fortune on someone not named Holliday or Bay (and that's just not going to happen). We should save some money and look to acquire a better option before the trade deadline.
<b>Matt Holliday</b>
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Holliday's stint in St. Louis didn't end on a good note, and if he leaves for more lucrative pastures, his legacy in Missouri might revolve around the missed catch that cost the Cardinals a win in the NLDS. Before that, however, he had re-established his place as a top hitter after reverting to his 2008 setup at the plate and getting away from American League pitching. AL hurlers found what the Red Sox had discovered in 2007 -- you can beat Holliday with good velocity, and he'll chase a lot of sliders, although he can crush a bad slider as well as any power hitter. He's moderately patient with good coverage on the outer half and, of course, has plus raw power, particularly to left-center. He's 16 months younger than Jason Bay and a better left fielder, although he looks extremely awkward out there and memories of his NLDS flub will haunt any general managers thinking of signing him, but he and Bay are the only impact bats on the market and will be paid accordingly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Jason Bay</b>
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Bay is the best overall hitter on the market this winter, with more offensive potential than Matt Holliday but less defensive value. Bay is extremely patient and has shown he can hit American League pitching, including good fastballs; he's actually much worse against changeups. He has plus pull power and could have 40-homer potential in a park friendly to right-handed power hitters, such as Minute Maid. Bay is not a good defensive left fielder, although Fenway Park has made many left fielders look worse than they actually are, both for scouts and in defensive metrics. I don't believe Bay is worst-in-the-majors or unplayable in left; he's below average, but does enough with his bat to compensate. Hitters with strong secondary skills can provide value even in years in which their batting averages drop because of bad luck on balls in play, and Bay's patience and power make him a very good bet to live up to expectations.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Johnny Damon</b>
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Damon might be the biggest beneficiary of the fact that the Yankees' new stadium is a good home run park; his apparent performance boost was largely a product of the new environment, as Damon hit 17 of his career-best 24 home runs at home. He'll play next year at 36, and age and a neutral park next year will lead to a big drop in his numbers. His swing is long and he bails out on anything down, away, or down and away. His reads in left field are poor, and his arm is a 35 on a good day. He's probably a .275/.355/.440 hitter -- if he doesn't have a sudden age-related drop-off -- who'll cost a team several runs on defense, and that's not worth anything close to what he earned from the Yankees on his last contract.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Marlon Byrd</b>
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Byrd is a classic fourth outfielder -- he doesn't play center field well enough to handle it on an everyday basis, but doesn't have quite the bat to play every day in a corner. His offensive line in 2008 was starter-worthy in a corner, but Byrd regressed in 2009; 25 regular corner outfielders beat his unadjusted .808 OPS. Plus, there's reason to doubt even that number for Byrd. Playing two years in a good hitters' park in Texas, Byrd has done much of his damage at home, posting a .290/.339/.415 line in 516 road PA over the past two years. A corner outfielder with a sub-800 OPS (that's light on OBP) who plays average to slightly above-average defense isn't a starter for a contending club.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Xavier Nady</b>
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Nady had a career year in 2008, buoyed by an improvement in his ability to hit right-handed pitching that started the year before. He blew out his elbow right after 2009 began, missing the opportunity to take advantage of homer-friendly Yankee Stadium in his walk year, although playing time may have been an issue in the crowded New York lineup. He's a potential value play this winter due to the injury. Realistically, though, his upside is that of an average defensive corner outfielder who'll hit for average power and some batting average but won't have a great OBP, and he may not have much of a throwing arm until later in the year or 2011.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Vladimir Guererro</b>
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Vlad is no longer the Impaler after leg and back injuries have wiped out his speed and sapped his power to the point where pitchers are increasingly emboldened in the way they pitch to him. He still has good bat control but does less with pitches when he makes contact, so pitchers are attacking him more in the zone than they ever did before, with more success. He can still hit a fastball and his power is only reduced, not gone, but a full year of DH duty didn't keep him healthy or help him recover his past level of performance. Several AL teams had worse DH options than Vlad in 2009, so there will be demand for him, but don't expect a return to his glory days.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Mark DeRosa</b>
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->DeRosa is now recovering from surgery to repair a torn tendon sheath in his left wrist, an injury that contributed to an incredibly disappointing season for him after a career year in 2008. When fully healthy, he's a useful utility player who can play four or five positions, but none of them really well enough to handle every day. The average power he developed in Texas has stayed with him through three more teams, none in parks as hitter-friendly as the Rangers' stadium, and prior to 2009 he'd shown increased patience. He has a strong reputation for intangibles, which should keep his market fairly strong even with the injury and down year and may even have him land a starter's salary, but if a team can grab him at a reserve's salary there's value to be had here.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Randy Winn</b>
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Winn had a bad year in 2009 and looked bad doing it, hitting a lot of soft line drives and diving into the ball at the plate, but prior to this he'd had two respectable years with OBPs of .353 and .363, and I'd be willing to take a one-year flier on him to see if that hitter is still in there. Of course, I'd be willing to take that flier because Winn has become a very solid defensive left fielder; he could play right, but his arm is below-average and his throwing motion is going to lead to some unflattering descriptions on pro scouting reports. He's still an above-average runner, and has been caught just seven times in 63 stolen-base attempts in the last three years, so we're not looking at a complete erosion of skills. The bat might be gone, but there's enough still there to make him valuable even if he only posts a .750 OPS.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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According to Levine we're discussing a possible trade with the Rockies for Spilborghs as a 4th OF to replace ReJo.
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<!--quoteo(post=73148:date=Dec 28 2009, 03:49 PM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Dec 28 2009, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->According to Levine we're discussing a possible trade with the Rockies for Spilborghs as a 4th OF to replace ReJo.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's cheap and could probably start out in RF for us in a platoon situation, or at least given what we've seen of him in his brief time hitting at Wrigley, he should.
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