Yankees interested in Zambrano?

[rok]

I think both statements are stretching the truth a bit. I still don't want Cabrera and I think we'd have to be wowed by an offer for Z at this point or else why bother?

[Runnys]

<!--quoteo(post=73211:date=Dec 29 2009, 08:12 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Dec 29 2009, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think both statements are stretching the truth a bit. I still don't want Cabrera and I think we'd have to be wowed by an offer for Z at this point or else why bother?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Just out of curiosity....what would "wow" you guys enough to trade Z? I think as Cub fans we overvalue Z too much, he really is nothing more than a average #2 starter that is getting paid like an ace. I know he has a little more value to us because our pitching depth is non existent right now. So I am just curious what you guys would need to move him?

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=73241:date=Dec 29 2009, 11:50 AM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 29 2009, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73211:date=Dec 29 2009, 08:12 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 29 2009, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think both statements are stretching the truth a bit. I still don't want Cabrera and I think we'd have to be wowed by an offer for Z at this point or else why bother?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Just out of curiosity....what would "wow" you guys enough to trade Z? I think as Cub fans we overvalue Z too much, he really is nothing more than a average #2 starter that is getting paid like an ace. I know he has a little more value to us because our pitching depth is non existent right now. So I am just curious what you guys would need to move him?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
2 above average MLB ready prospects, one a SP and the other a position player. That would do it for me. I just think we'd be selling low by trading him at the moment. He's coming off his worst season and was injured as well. Why not wait and if we're out of it by end of summer, then see what he is worth.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=73241:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:50 PM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 29 2009, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73211:date=Dec 29 2009, 08:12 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 29 2009, 08:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think both statements are stretching the truth a bit. I still don't want Cabrera and I think we'd have to be wowed by an offer for Z at this point or else why bother?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Just out of curiosity....what would "wow" you guys enough to trade Z? I think as Cub fans we overvalue Z too much, he really is nothing more than a average #2 starter that is getting paid like an ace. I know he has a little more value to us because our pitching depth is non existent right now. So I am just curious what you guys would need to move him?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Two top 100 prospects and a lower level guy with upside. In terms of value based on the Cubs prospects, I would want to see a Vitters, Jay Jackson, Jeffrey Antigua type return. I'd like to see a throw in type that would be able to play adequate infield defense too.

[Butcher]

I think a whole lot of people undervalue Zambrano -- including a lot of Cubs fans. Yeah -- he can be maddeningly inconsistent, but even if we get a highly-touted pitching prospect in return for Z, it's unlikely he'll turn into a Zambrano-type pitcher -- or anything close.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=73249:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:25 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 29 2009, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think a whole lot of people undervalue Zambrano -- including a lot of Cubs fans. Yeah -- he can be maddeningly inconsistent, but even if we get a highly-touted pitching prospect in return for Z, it's unlikely he'll turn into a Zambrano-type pitcher -- or anything close.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree. I think the above proposition I made would be fair return for Z, but I would be anything but happy about it.

[cherp]

<!--quoteo(post=73249:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:25 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 29 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think a whole lot of people undervalue Zambrano -- including a lot of Cubs fans. Yeah -- he can be maddeningly inconsistent, but even if we get a highly-touted pitching prospect in return for Z, it's unlikely he'll turn into a Zambrano-type pitcher -- or anything close.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


That's certainly true Butch. The odds of getting someone who turns into a Zambrano are low. But what you get is about 75mm in salary relief. So if you get in return a #3 who is yours for 6 years at a reasonable salary, and a position player who can make it into your lineup eventually, you then have a ton of money to spend on other things.

Worst case, if you get nothing for Zambrano, you still have 75mm over 4 years saved - which can get you as good a FA as you find...or two solid FAs....or more....

It's hard to give up a guy who, on any given day, can go out and pitch like a #1, and not be sure you get that in return. But with the price tag Carlos has, that's just what the Cubs need to be thinking about.

I tell you what I'd think about doing if I were the Cubs - go to the Yanks and offer them Soriano AND Zambrano for one top 100 type pitching prospect...I am not sure they'd bite, but if they did, that's 165mm freed up. Would give a new GM a whole lot of leverage to craft a team with FAs coming up in the next few years named Pujols, Reyes, Rollins, Jeter, Mauer, Crawford, Beckett, Cain, Lee and Wood.

I can't imagine the Yanks would bite...but if any team would, they'd be a likely candidate. I'd scour the list of the wealthy and try to find a taker - even if the return was nil...

[Coldneck]

I don't think anyone would take Soriano off our hands unless we eat 60-70% of the money. I think the best option wait and pray he has an excellent 1st half and we can trade him at the deadline for more savings.

But my guess is we keep him and release him with a couple years left on the deal.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=73263:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:29 PM:name=cherp)-->QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 29 2009, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I tell you what I'd think about doing if I were the Cubs - go to the Yanks and offer them Soriano AND Zambrano for one top 100 type pitching prospect...I am not sure they'd bite, but if they did, that's 165mm freed up. Would give a new GM a whole lot of leverage to craft a team with FAs coming up in the next few years named Pujols, Reyes, Rollins, Jeter, Mauer, Crawford, Beckett, Cain, Lee and Wood.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I gotta step in and say this is all flawed thinking. You're talking about dumping contracts to sign these guys. However, you don't think they're all gonna want 10 year deals approaching the $200 mill range? Sure, Mauer is a lot better than Soriano in comparison right now. But what happens 3 years down the line when Mauer's knees start giving him trouble and he has to start taking weeks at a time off? Or what about the fact that Jimmy Rollins is a middle infielder wtih good speed that relies quite a bit on his speed in the way he plays the game? Hello, Beckett's arm could go back to injured every other week.

Those guys on the list could be the next "Soriano contract". It just doesn't seem right to criticize Soriano's contract and yell about it but turn around and talk about signing 30ish year old free agent superstars.

[cherp]

<!--quoteo(post=73286:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:11 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73263:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:29 PM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 29 2009, 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I tell you what I'd think about doing if I were the Cubs - go to the Yanks and offer them Soriano AND Zambrano for one top 100 type pitching prospect...I am not sure they'd bite, but if they did, that's 165mm freed up. Would give a new GM a whole lot of leverage to craft a team with FAs coming up in the next few years named Pujols, Reyes, Rollins, Jeter, Mauer, Crawford, Beckett, Cain, Lee and Wood.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I gotta step in and say this is all flawed thinking. You're talking about dumping contracts to sign these guys. However, you don't think they're all gonna want 10 year deals approaching the $200 mill range? Sure, Mauer is a lot better than Soriano in comparison right now. But what happens 3 years down the line when Mauer's knees start giving him trouble and he has to start taking weeks at a time off? Or what about the fact that Jimmy Rollins is a middle infielder wtih good speed that relies quite a bit on his speed in the way he plays the game? Hello, Beckett's arm could go back to injured every other week.

Those guys on the list could be the next "Soriano contract". It just doesn't seem right to criticize Soriano's contract and yell about it but turn around and talk about signing 30ish year old free agent superstars.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's certainly possible. And it is doubtful that the Yanks would take those two deals even if they didn't have to give up anything for them. But I predict that I'd much rather have any of those guys at whatever they end up signing at over Soriano with what he has left. Now it is entirely possible that in 3-4 years we are saying that about those guys too - but it is 100% sure that we are saying it today about Soriano. (Unless there are folks expecting him to turn it around...)

Right now, Soriano's contract isn't killing the Cubs. His production, while not what expected, is OK. But I'd dump that deal in a heartbeat and take my chances with whomever the GM could get for that money.

It is, as Coldneck said, a pipe dream. Nobody would want Alf without boatloads of cash with him.

Put it this way, the Cubs will put him on irrevocable waivers and it is unlikely anyone would claim him. (that was also said about Rios - and the Sox blew a boatload of cash on him)

[Runnys]

Cherp...you DO realize that Soriano was not 100% healthy at ANY point of the season last year...right?

[cherp]

<!--quoteo(post=73299:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:05 PM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Dec 29 2009, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cherp...you DO realize that Soriano was not 100% healthy at ANY point of the season last year...right?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


and he wasn't healthy in 08...and he missed a lot of games in 07 also. I know his health severely impacted him last year. But the guy started a downward trend at age 30. That's not uncommon in the pre and post steroid age that guys don't last much past that age. Certainly they don't usually deliver to be worth 18mm after that age usually.

Soriano may completely rebound. The Cubs can take that chance if they want to. If they found someone to take that contract off their hands, I'd be shocked if they didn't do cartwheels over it.

That said, you are right, he isn't dead yet.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=73249:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:25 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 29 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think a whole lot of people undervalue Zambrano -- including a lot of Cubs fans. Yeah -- he can be maddeningly inconsistent, but even if we get a highly-touted pitching prospect in return for Z, it's unlikely he'll turn into a Zambrano-type pitcher -- or anything close.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

plus tere's that glimmer of hope that he's gonna turn the corner. he's still young enough tat his upside is huge. if the cubs trade him, he will win a cy young. there's no doubt.

[cherp]

<!--quoteo(post=73314:date=Dec 29 2009, 05:36 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 29 2009, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73249:date=Dec 29 2009, 12:25 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 29 2009, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think a whole lot of people undervalue Zambrano -- including a lot of Cubs fans. Yeah -- he can be maddeningly inconsistent, but even if we get a highly-touted pitching prospect in return for Z, it's unlikely he'll turn into a Zambrano-type pitcher -- or anything close.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

plus tere's that glimmer of hope that he's gonna turn the corner. he's still young enough tat his upside is huge. if the cubs trade him, he will win a cy young. there's no doubt.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

He might be too dumb to turn the corner. He's got all the skills, we know that. But the mental breakdowns - that's hard to change. The only hope is that after all the crap, he decides to dedicate himself physically...and that he comes back in better physical condition...

I just don't ever predict he will become a controlled, smart pitcher. I think forcing him into that would take away some of what makes him most effective - the controlled wildness.

[Ace]

If Zambrano is just an average number 2, there are at least 30 better starting pitchers in MLB. I'd like to know who they are.