Zambrano

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Here are Carlos Zambrano's pitching numbers since the 2008 All Star Break:

Starts 41
Wins 13
Losses 11
ERA 4.63
BAA .248 (.246 with runners in scoring position)
22 HR Allowed
239 innings (avg of 5.8 per start)
4.3 BB per 9 innings

106 pitchers in Major League Baseball have made 30 or more starts over the same span of time. Here is where Carlos Zambrano ranks among those pitchers:

ERA: 79th
Innings pitched: 60th
BB per 9 innings: 100th
Wins: 65th<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's pretty shitty.

[rok]

I would think that his last start probably skews his ERA and other stats as well. Also, his 2009 wasn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Certainly not ace-type stats, but very acceptable given his DL stints and suspension. Data mining at its worst.

[1060Ivy]

<!--quoteo(post=86950:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:30 AM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Apr 8 2010, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Here are Carlos Zambrano's pitching numbers since the 2008 All Star Break:

Starts 41
Wins 13
Losses 11
ERA 4.63
BAA .248 (.246 with runners in scoring position)
22 HR Allowed
239 innings (avg of 5.8 per start)
4.3 BB per 9 innings

106 pitchers in Major League Baseball have made 30 or more starts over the same span of time. Here is where Carlos Zambrano ranks among those pitchers:

ERA: 79th
Innings pitched: 60th
BB per 9 innings: 100th
Wins: 65th<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's pretty shitty.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Any chance that you would like to post something about the Cubs defense during the same period?

[ColoradoCub]

<!--quoteo(post=86959:date=Apr 8 2010, 10:51 AM:name=1060Ivy)-->QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Apr 8 2010, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86950:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:30 AM:name=ColoradoCub)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Apr 8 2010, 11:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Here are Carlos Zambrano's pitching numbers since the 2008 All Star Break:

Starts 41
Wins 13
Losses 11
ERA 4.63
BAA .248 (.246 with runners in scoring position)
22 HR Allowed
239 innings (avg of 5.8 per start)
4.3 BB per 9 innings

106 pitchers in Major League Baseball have made 30 or more starts over the same span of time. Here is where Carlos Zambrano ranks among those pitchers:

ERA: 79th
Innings pitched: 60th
BB per 9 innings: 100th
Wins: 65th<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's pretty shitty.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Any chance that you would like to post something about the Cubs defense during the same period?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Lilly, Wells and Dempster seemed to do ok with the same defense behind them.

[Fella]

<!--quoteo(post=86952:date=Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would think that his last start probably skews his ERA and other stats as well. Also, his 2009 wasn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Certainly not ace-type stats, but very acceptable given his DL stints and suspension. Data mining at its worst.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yup, his ERA over that period was 4.34 before his last start. Obviously still not good, but it skewed it quite a bit.

People are always harder on guys they expect more from though. Z was easily an ace from 03 to 06 and has been very solid since. He has been one of the most consistent pitchers in all of baseball. Something like 3rd or 4th in all of baseball in wins since 03 and yet every year we hear from Cubs fans how bad he sucks and how he has never been an ace. Its just never going to change.

I do agree he should never pitch on opening day anymore though. I also always liked crazy big Z. Sure he got pissed and hurt us every now and then but I think it helped him far more often than it hurt him.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=86965:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86952:date=Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would think that his last start probably skews his ERA and other stats as well. Also, his 2009 wasn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Certainly not ace-type stats, but very acceptable given his DL stints and suspension. Data mining at its worst.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yup, his ERA over that period was 4.34 before his last start. Obviously still not good, but it skewed it quite a bit.

People are always harder on guys they expect more from though. Z was easily an ace from 03 to 06 and has been very solid since. He has been one of the most consistent pitchers in all of baseball. Something like 3rd or 4th in all of baseball in wins since 03 and yet every year we hear from Cubs fans how bad he sucks and how he has never been an ace. Its just never going to change.

I do agree he should never pitch on opening day anymore though. I also always liked crazy big Z. Sure he got pissed and hurt us every now and then but I think it helped him far more often than it hurt him.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Zambrano talk's been one of the most annoying things to listen to as a Cubs fan for years. He's been very good for the reasons you said. He had what, 7 straight years of 13+ wins and 8 straight years of an ERA under 4? He's gotten it done as much as any other starting pitcher in the league during the regular season in the last decade.

I keep hearing the "we don't have an ace" stuff. To me that really matters at two times: the first few weeks of the season when they're matched up against the top of other rotations, and the playoffs. It's a bit overrated. We have four very good starting pitchers. This is our team's strength.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=86967:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86965:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86952:date=Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would think that his last start probably skews his ERA and other stats as well. Also, his 2009 wasn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Certainly not ace-type stats, but very acceptable given his DL stints and suspension. Data mining at its worst.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yup, his ERA over that period was 4.34 before his last start. Obviously still not good, but it skewed it quite a bit.

People are always harder on guys they expect more from though. Z was easily an ace from 03 to 06 and has been very solid since. He has been one of the most consistent pitchers in all of baseball. Something like 3rd or 4th in all of baseball in wins since 03 and yet every year we hear from Cubs fans how bad he sucks and how he has never been an ace. Its just never going to change.

I do agree he should never pitch on opening day anymore though. I also always liked crazy big Z. Sure he got pissed and hurt us every now and then but I think it helped him far more often than it hurt him.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Zambrano talk's been one of the most annoying things to listen to as a Cubs fan for years. He's been very good for the reasons you said. He had what, 7 straight years of 13+ wins and 8 straight years of an ERA under 4? He's gotten it done as much as any other starting pitcher in the league during the regular season in the last decade.

I keep hearing the "we don't have an ace" stuff. To me that really matters at two times: the first few weeks of the season when they're matched up against the top of other rotations, and the playoffs. It's a bit overrated. We have four very good starting pitchers. This is our team's strength.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shitty Chicago sportswriters and other media douchebags have been feeding us this bullshit for years now -- particularly Sullivan. I can't wait until the Tribune dies.

And I would love to have a "true ace," but I agree it doesn't matter much during the regular season. However, it's HUGE for the postseason. You can ride the performance of one amazing pitcher deep into the playoffs with a team that doesn't otherwise look like a powerhouse.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=86968:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:21 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 8 2010, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86967:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86965:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86952:date=Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would think that his last start probably skews his ERA and other stats as well. Also, his 2009 wasn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Certainly not ace-type stats, but very acceptable given his DL stints and suspension. Data mining at its worst.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yup, his ERA over that period was 4.34 before his last start. Obviously still not good, but it skewed it quite a bit.

People are always harder on guys they expect more from though. Z was easily an ace from 03 to 06 and has been very solid since. He has been one of the most consistent pitchers in all of baseball. Something like 3rd or 4th in all of baseball in wins since 03 and yet every year we hear from Cubs fans how bad he sucks and how he has never been an ace. Its just never going to change.

I do agree he should never pitch on opening day anymore though. I also always liked crazy big Z. Sure he got pissed and hurt us every now and then but I think it helped him far more often than it hurt him.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Zambrano talk's been one of the most annoying things to listen to as a Cubs fan for years. He's been very good for the reasons you said. He had what, 7 straight years of 13+ wins and 8 straight years of an ERA under 4? He's gotten it done as much as any other starting pitcher in the league during the regular season in the last decade.

I keep hearing the "we don't have an ace" stuff. To me that really matters at two times: the first few weeks of the season when they're matched up against the top of other rotations, and the playoffs. It's a bit overrated. We have four very good starting pitchers. This is our team's strength.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shitty Chicago sportswriters and other media douchebags have been feeding us this bullshit for years now -- particularly Sullivan. I can't wait until the Tribune dies.

And I would love to have a "true ace," but I agree it doesn't matter much during the regular season. However, it's HUGE for the postseason. You can ride the performance of one amazing pitcher deep into the playoffs with a team that doesn't otherwise look like a powerhouse.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, but we still wouldn't have gone anywhere in 07 and 08 with one.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=86975:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86968:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:21 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 8 2010, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86967:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86965:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86952:date=Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would think that his last start probably skews his ERA and other stats as well. Also, his 2009 wasn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Certainly not ace-type stats, but very acceptable given his DL stints and suspension. Data mining at its worst.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yup, his ERA over that period was 4.34 before his last start. Obviously still not good, but it skewed it quite a bit.

People are always harder on guys they expect more from though. Z was easily an ace from 03 to 06 and has been very solid since. He has been one of the most consistent pitchers in all of baseball. Something like 3rd or 4th in all of baseball in wins since 03 and yet every year we hear from Cubs fans how bad he sucks and how he has never been an ace. Its just never going to change.

I do agree he should never pitch on opening day anymore though. I also always liked crazy big Z. Sure he got pissed and hurt us every now and then but I think it helped him far more often than it hurt him.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Zambrano talk's been one of the most annoying things to listen to as a Cubs fan for years. He's been very good for the reasons you said. He had what, 7 straight years of 13+ wins and 8 straight years of an ERA under 4? He's gotten it done as much as any other starting pitcher in the league during the regular season in the last decade.

I keep hearing the "we don't have an ace" stuff. To me that really matters at two times: the first few weeks of the season when they're matched up against the top of other rotations, and the playoffs. It's a bit overrated. We have four very good starting pitchers. This is our team's strength.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shitty Chicago sportswriters and other media douchebags have been feeding us this bullshit for years now -- particularly Sullivan. I can't wait until the Tribune dies.

And I would love to have a "true ace," but I agree it doesn't matter much during the regular season. However, it's HUGE for the postseason. You can ride the performance of one amazing pitcher deep into the playoffs with a team that doesn't otherwise look like a powerhouse.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, but we still wouldn't have gone anywhere in 07 and 08 with one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, but you know that already.

If we had Lincecum, for example, pitching for us in '07 and/or '08, we would have likely won game 1 of both of those series. In a five game series, that is huge. Then, if the series went to a fifth game, the D'Backs and Dodgers would have had to face Lincecum again in a series clincher.

Obviously, there's no guarantee, but I would have liked our chances.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=86977:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:53 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 8 2010, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86975:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86968:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:21 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 8 2010, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86967:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86965:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86952:date=Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would think that his last start probably skews his ERA and other stats as well. Also, his 2009 wasn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Certainly not ace-type stats, but very acceptable given his DL stints and suspension. Data mining at its worst.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yup, his ERA over that period was 4.34 before his last start. Obviously still not good, but it skewed it quite a bit.

People are always harder on guys they expect more from though. Z was easily an ace from 03 to 06 and has been very solid since. He has been one of the most consistent pitchers in all of baseball. Something like 3rd or 4th in all of baseball in wins since 03 and yet every year we hear from Cubs fans how bad he sucks and how he has never been an ace. Its just never going to change.

I do agree he should never pitch on opening day anymore though. I also always liked crazy big Z. Sure he got pissed and hurt us every now and then but I think it helped him far more often than it hurt him.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Zambrano talk's been one of the most annoying things to listen to as a Cubs fan for years. He's been very good for the reasons you said. He had what, 7 straight years of 13+ wins and 8 straight years of an ERA under 4? He's gotten it done as much as any other starting pitcher in the league during the regular season in the last decade.

I keep hearing the "we don't have an ace" stuff. To me that really matters at two times: the first few weeks of the season when they're matched up against the top of other rotations, and the playoffs. It's a bit overrated. We have four very good starting pitchers. This is our team's strength.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shitty Chicago sportswriters and other media douchebags have been feeding us this bullshit for years now -- particularly Sullivan. I can't wait until the Tribune dies.

And I would love to have a "true ace," but I agree it doesn't matter much during the regular season. However, it's HUGE for the postseason. You can ride the performance of one amazing pitcher deep into the playoffs with a team that doesn't otherwise look like a powerhouse.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, but we still wouldn't have gone anywhere in 07 and 08 with one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, but you know that already.

If we had Lincecum, for example, pitching for us in '07 and/or '08, we would have likely won game 1 of both of those series. In a five game series, that is huge. Then, if the series went to a fifth game, the D'Backs and Dodgers would have had to face Lincecum again in a series clincher.

Obviously, there's no guarantee, but I would have liked our chances.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We couldn't field the ball and couldn't swing the bats. We weren't going to win those.

And game 1 of 2007? Z allowed 1 run in 6 innings(and remember Lou took him out way too early?). We scored 1 run that game. Our offense choking in each of those 2 playoffs is why we lost. 6 runs in 3 games both times.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=86981:date=Apr 8 2010, 01:11 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86977:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:53 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 8 2010, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86975:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86968:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:21 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 8 2010, 11:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86967:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 8 2010, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86965:date=Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 8 2010, 11:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=86952:date=Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 8 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would think that his last start probably skews his ERA and other stats as well. Also, his 2009 wasn't as bad as some people pretend it to be. Certainly not ace-type stats, but very acceptable given his DL stints and suspension. Data mining at its worst.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Yup, his ERA over that period was 4.34 before his last start. Obviously still not good, but it skewed it quite a bit.

People are always harder on guys they expect more from though. Z was easily an ace from 03 to 06 and has been very solid since. He has been one of the most consistent pitchers in all of baseball. Something like 3rd or 4th in all of baseball in wins since 03 and yet every year we hear from Cubs fans how bad he sucks and how he has never been an ace. Its just never going to change.

I do agree he should never pitch on opening day anymore though. I also always liked crazy big Z. Sure he got pissed and hurt us every now and then but I think it helped him far more often than it hurt him.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Zambrano talk's been one of the most annoying things to listen to as a Cubs fan for years. He's been very good for the reasons you said. He had what, 7 straight years of 13+ wins and 8 straight years of an ERA under 4? He's gotten it done as much as any other starting pitcher in the league during the regular season in the last decade.

I keep hearing the "we don't have an ace" stuff. To me that really matters at two times: the first few weeks of the season when they're matched up against the top of other rotations, and the playoffs. It's a bit overrated. We have four very good starting pitchers. This is our team's strength.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The shitty Chicago sportswriters and other media douchebags have been feeding us this bullshit for years now -- particularly Sullivan. I can't wait until the Tribune dies.

And I would love to have a "true ace," but I agree it doesn't matter much during the regular season. However, it's HUGE for the postseason. You can ride the performance of one amazing pitcher deep into the playoffs with a team that doesn't otherwise look like a powerhouse.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely, but we still wouldn't have gone anywhere in 07 and 08 with one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree, but you know that already.

If we had Lincecum, for example, pitching for us in '07 and/or '08, we would have likely won game 1 of both of those series. In a five game series, that is huge. Then, if the series went to a fifth game, the D'Backs and Dodgers would have had to face Lincecum again in a series clincher.

Obviously, there's no guarantee, but I would have liked our chances.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We couldn't field the ball and couldn't swing the bats. We weren't going to win those.

And game 1 of 2007? Z allowed 1 run in 6 innings(and remember Lou took him out way too early?). We scored 1 run that game. Our offense choking in each of those 2 playoffs is why we lost. 6 runs in 3 games both times.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know you can't count on Lincecum to throw a shutout in either of those games, but the odds are a lot better than Z or Dempster.

And we scored enough runs in game 1 of '08 to win that game if Lincecum was on the mound.

We've had this argument before and I know you're sticking to your guns. But so am I.

[Coach]

I dont see what is "cherry picking" about looking at Z's stats from the last year and a half.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=86992:date=Apr 8 2010, 01:36 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 8 2010, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I dont see what is "cherry picking" about looking at Z's stats from the last year and a half.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If I were trying to pick a mutual fund to invest in and all the data I used to make my decision were the last 18 months of performance history, and if said data were compiled immediately following the worst single-day performance in a certain fund's history, I wouldn't have a job for very long. Did you read Fella's post where the data was skewed significantly after Z's last start?

[Fella]

<!--quoteo(post=86992:date=Apr 8 2010, 12:36 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 8 2010, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I dont see what is "cherry picking" about looking at Z's stats from the last year and a half.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well for one thing its picking an exact time frame to make things look as bad as possible. Its starting at a specific time to make the stats look the way you want them to. If you look at his numbers over the past 2 years his ERA is like 3.85 and for just last year it was 3.77, but if you find the exact right starting point so it includes a bad stretch and eliminates a good stretch then you can make things look the way you want. You can manipulate stats to look almost anyway you want if you find the right stats and the right time frame to use.

[Coach]

I was basing that off his 4.34 ERA (before last start) the last year and a half.

That isnt a good number for a #1, #2, #3 started IMO.