Z to the Pen

[BT]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->So...how many bad starts from Gorz and/or Silva will it take to move Z back into the rotation? How long before they start pitching like they have for their entire careers? And once they do, how long of a leash will they have before Lou realizes that Zambrano is better than either of them (and has been for nearly a decade) and should, once again, get more innings than them?

There won't be a magical light that goes on in the dugout that warns Lou that Silva and Gorz are approaching the moment when they turn back into pumpkins.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

2? Maybe 3?

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=92071:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:04 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92069:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 01:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded. Lily is not worse than Zambrano. The bullpen is upgraded. The bullpen has been a problem.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps we should move Lilly and Dempster into the bullpen to REALLY upgrade it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. And then we could move Lee and Ramirez to the bench so we have better pinch hitters.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Because THAT is the point we are trying to make.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=92075:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:20 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92071:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92069:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 01:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded. Lily is not worse than Zambrano. The bullpen is upgraded. The bullpen has been a problem.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Perhaps we should move Lilly and Dempster into the bullpen to REALLY upgrade it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. And then we could move Lee and Ramirez to the bench so we have better pinch hitters.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Because THAT is the point we are trying to make.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know. That's why I said it.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=92065:date=Apr 22 2010, 11:53 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><b>That's EXACTLY what Zambrano said. He is supposed to pitch in the 8th inning until they find someone else who can do it. The Cubs would like to trade for an 8th inning guy,</b> but suddenly we are faced with the conundrum that <b>Zambrano is now completely useless as an 8th inning pitcher</b>, but no one in the league wants to give up an 8th inning pitcher because they are too valuable. Not sure how that makes any sense, but that's where we are.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where was this reported? I haven't read what Z said and I'd like to.

That second bolded passage...I don't know what that means.

[PcB]

<!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS year, Zambrano is the worst of our starting pitchers. Let it ride for now, it's not like he'll be in the bullpen all year.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Right, because Silva has sucked so badly his entire career that the Mariners decided to give him 48 million dollars.

Have you even looked at his career? He's had 2 legitimately awful years. And 5 where he was anywhere from adequate to pretty good.

Plus, I like the ramifications of your idea. "Hey Silva, I know you are pitching better than anyone else on the team right now, and I know you give us a chance to win every time you go out, but we are all pretty sure you are going to suck at some point, so just to be sure, we will yank you from the rotation".

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=92079:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:25 PM:name=PcB)-->QUOTE (PcB @ Apr 22 2010, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS year, Zambrano is the worst of our starting pitchers. Let it ride for now, it's not like he'll be in the bullpen all year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He sucked balls on opening day...are his numbers the worst in the rotation if you factor that out?

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=92078:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:24 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92065:date=Apr 22 2010, 11:53 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 11:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><b>That's EXACTLY what Zambrano said. He is supposed to pitch in the 8th inning until they find someone else who can do it. The Cubs would like to trade for an 8th inning guy,</b> but suddenly we are faced with the conundrum that <b>Zambrano is now completely useless as an 8th inning pitcher</b>, but no one in the league wants to give up an 8th inning pitcher because they are too valuable. Not sure how that makes any sense, but that's where we are.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where was this reported? I haven't read what Z said and I'd like to.

That second bolded passage...I don't know what that means.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It was reported pretty much everywhere. Here is his exact quote.

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Zambrano was asked if it was temporary. He then answered it this way: "Temporary?" Zambrano said. "He told me that probably Randy (Bush) or Jim Hendry was looking for an eighth inning guy. And when they find a guy and trade (for a) guy and get that guy here, I will be back to the rotation.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As to the second quote, I'm not sure where the confusion is. Everyone with the razor to their wrists is complaining that by moving Zambrano to the 8th, we are making him useless.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=92081:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:28 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92079:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:25 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Apr 22 2010, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS year, Zambrano is the worst of our starting pitchers. Let it ride for now, it's not like he'll be in the bullpen all year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He sucked balls on opening day...are his numbers the worst in the rotation if you factor that out?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes. He's 1-1 with a 4.00 ERA, if I'm doing the math right.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=92080:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Right, because Silva has sucked so badly his entire career that the Mariners decided to give him 48 million dollars.

Have you even looked at his career? He's had 2 legitimately awful years. And 5 where he was anywhere from adequate to pretty good.

Plus, I like the ramifications of your idea. "Hey Silva, I know you are pitching better than anyone else on the team right now, and I know you give us a chance to win every time you go out, but we are all pretty sure you are going to suck at some point, so just to be sure, we will yank you from the rotation".
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the ramifications of your idea even more. "Hey Z, I know you're a 3-time All-Star and your three 'worst' seasons are better than Carlos Silva's three 'best' seasons, but because you've had a couple of bad starts in April and Silva has had a couple of good starts in April, we're going to yank you from the rotation and leave Silva where he is."

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=92084:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:32 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92080:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Right, because Silva has sucked so badly his entire career that the Mariners decided to give him 48 million dollars.

Have you even looked at his career? He's had 2 legitimately awful years. And 5 where he was anywhere from adequate to pretty good.

Plus, I like the ramifications of your idea. "Hey Silva, I know you are pitching better than anyone else on the team right now, and I know you give us a chance to win every time you go out, but we are all pretty sure you are going to suck at some point, so just to be sure, we will yank you from the rotation".
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the ramifications of your idea even more. "Hey Z, I know you're a 3-time All-Star and your three 'worst' seasons are better than Carlos Silva's three 'best' seasons, but because you've had a couple of bad starts in April and Silva has had a couple of good starts in April, we're going to yank you from the rotation and leave Silva where he is."
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Temporarily putting the guy who is doing the worst of our 5 starters at this moment in the pen seems at least defensible. Putting the guy who is doing the best of our 5 starters in the pen, because he was really bad 2 years ago, seems like a bad idea. Especially when you take into account the fact that if he becomes Silva 2008, he can be moved to the pen then. I'm not saying he won't get worse, maybe much worse, but taking your BEST starter out of the rotation, while he is hot, because you assume he will get bad, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said that.

I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.

He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp. So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.

It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=92081:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:28 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92079:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:25 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Apr 22 2010, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS year, Zambrano is the worst of our starting pitchers. Let it ride for now, it's not like he'll be in the bullpen all year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He sucked balls on opening day...are his numbers the worst in the rotation if you factor that out?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I just checked. The answer is yes. NM

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=92084:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:32 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92080:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Right, because Silva has sucked so badly his entire career that the Mariners decided to give him 48 million dollars.

Have you even looked at his career? He's had 2 legitimately awful years. And 5 where he was anywhere from adequate to pretty good.

Plus, I like the ramifications of your idea. "Hey Silva, I know you are pitching better than anyone else on the team right now, and I know you give us a chance to win every time you go out, but we are all pretty sure you are going to suck at some point, so just to be sure, we will yank you from the rotation".
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the ramifications of your idea even more. "Hey Z, I know you're a 3-time All-Star and your three 'worst' seasons are better than Carlos Silva's three 'best' seasons, but because you've had a couple of bad starts in April and Silva has had a couple of good starts in April, we're going to yank you from the rotation and leave Silva where he is."
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't think it was a case of Lou picking Silva over Zambrano. I think it was a case of Lou wanting a dependable right handed thrower in the bullpen, so he turns to Zambrano ONLY because Silva and Gorzelanny are pitching well.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=92085:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:37 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92084:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:32 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92080:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
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I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
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Right, because Silva has sucked so badly his entire career that the Mariners decided to give him 48 million dollars.

Have you even looked at his career? He's had 2 legitimately awful years. And 5 where he was anywhere from adequate to pretty good.

Plus, I like the ramifications of your idea. "Hey Silva, I know you are pitching better than anyone else on the team right now, and I know you give us a chance to win every time you go out, but we are all pretty sure you are going to suck at some point, so just to be sure, we will yank you from the rotation".
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I like the ramifications of your idea even more. "Hey Z, I know you're a 3-time All-Star and your three 'worst' seasons are better than Carlos Silva's three 'best' seasons, but because you've had a couple of bad starts in April and Silva has had a couple of good starts in April, we're going to yank you from the rotation and leave Silva where he is."
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Temporarily putting the guy who is doing the worst of our 5 starters at this moment in the pen seems at least defensible. Putting the guy who is doing the best of our 5 starters in the pen, because he was really bad 2 years ago, seems like a bad idea. Especially when you take into account the fact that if he becomes Silva 2008, he can be moved to the pen then. I'm not saying he won't get worse, maybe much worse, but taking your BEST starter out of the rotation, while he is hot, because you assume he will get bad, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
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What I'm saying is this: EVERY time Z takes the mound instead of Carlos Silva, there's a better chance we get a quality start and our odds of winning the game are better.

If you want to try and ride Silva's hot hand a little longer, then fine -- move Gorz into the 'pen. I don't give a shit that he's a lefty and we already have "too many lefties" in our pen. Moving Z into the bullpen makes zero sense and is indefensible.