For the sake of argument...

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=93785:date=Apr 30 2010, 12:06 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 30 2010, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93778:date=Apr 30 2010, 12:42 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Apr 30 2010, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93774:date=Apr 30 2010, 11:16 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 11:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93773:date=Apr 30 2010, 11:15 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 30 2010, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93771:date=Apr 30 2010, 12:14 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93763:date=Apr 30 2010, 10:55 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 30 2010, 10:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93756:date=Apr 30 2010, 11:13 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 30 2010, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93751:date=Apr 30 2010, 09:54 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Because 1st base is the easiest position to find an adequate replacement at in baseball...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This is why I don't want to pay ANYONE huge money to play first.

I'd really hate to be in the Cardinals' spot. Couldn't happen to a nicer team.
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Yeah, it would suck to have Pujols playing 1B.

First base is an easier position to play, but I'd be quite happy to have a Pujols caliber player and pay him a fortune on this team. This team has no true slam dunk superstar. It hasn't since Lee's amazing 2005 season (wow, has it been that long?). I'd love to have one guy like Pujols, Matt Holliday, Crawford, Teixeira, Adrian Gonzalez, etc.
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Holliday nor Crawford are superstars. Nice players, not close to superstars, <b>pretty much on par with Ramirez and Lee, maybe not even as valuable.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On that we'll disagree.
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And you'd be wrong.
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You mean Holliday who left Colorado to suck dick in Oakland and perform well only with baseball's greatest hitter in the lineup, or Crawford who's only asset is SBs and has a career OPS of .775. Big contracts do not always equal a "superstar." As far as value to the Cubs, Ramirez and Lee are way more valuable than Crawford and Holliday. Not to mention Lee had 35 home runs and a .972 OPS last season while playing solid defense for a fraction of the cost Gonz will require at a position where more than half the players are all-star caliber (I counted 19 players), and Ramirez is our team MVP every year while playing GG caliber 3rd base with a 162 game average of 36 home runs and 121 RBIs.

Isn't it funny how just a touch of research can validate or disprove something? You should try it some time.
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You're kind of an dickhead. There are ways to make a point without turning into a massive douche. Your post is not one of those ways

I'd rather build a team with both Holliday and Crawford due to age and performance. I'm actually not even a big fan of Holliday, but at 29 years old I'd rather have him than Lee and Ramirez. Lee is 36 and while still quite good is beginning the decline stage of his career. Ramirez is very good, but he's injury prone and his defense is slipping.
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Douche or not, you're still wrong.

[kbwsb]

<!--quoteo(post=93751:date=Apr 30 2010, 09:54 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93729:date=Apr 30 2010, 08:01 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 30 2010, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93727:date=Apr 30 2010, 08:57 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93723:date=Apr 30 2010, 07:25 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 30 2010, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Would it be smart to trade Starlin Castro for Adrian Gonzalez and say goodbye to D Lee? Would Starlin be enough?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->No and no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Really, what's your reasoning?
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Because 1st base is the easiest position to find an adequate replacement at in baseball, SS is the most difficult. It would take Castro and probably 2-3 more top prospects to get Gonzalez. Gonzalez would then need to be signed to a Soriano-type extension after the season. It's just not a winning situation for the Cubs, IMO.
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That was the best baseball post you've ever made.
I don't even agree with the no-trade; but that's a damn good argument against it.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=93793:date=Apr 30 2010, 12:14 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 30 2010, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93751:date=Apr 30 2010, 09:54 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93729:date=Apr 30 2010, 08:01 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 30 2010, 08:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93727:date=Apr 30 2010, 08:57 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93723:date=Apr 30 2010, 07:25 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 30 2010, 07:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Would it be smart to trade Starlin Castro for Adrian Gonzalez and say goodbye to D Lee? Would Starlin be enough?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->No and no.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Really, what's your reasoning?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because 1st base is the easiest position to find an adequate replacement at in baseball, SS is the most difficult. It would take Castro and probably 2-3 more top prospects to get Gonzalez. Gonzalez would then need to be signed to a Soriano-type extension after the season. It's just not a winning situation for the Cubs, IMO.
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That was the best baseball post you've ever made.
I don't even agree with the no-trade; but that's a damn good argument against it.
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While I agree it's a good argument, it also needs to be pointed out that the candidates to take Lee's place are not very impressive. Adam Dunn and Carlos Pena are the only free agents next year that are worth signing. I would advocate signing one of them, but it would have to be a three year deal at most. They will be 31 and 32 next year.

Prince Fielder and Adrian Gonzalez will be free agents in 2012. They could hold out another year and sign one of them, but what do you do at 1B next year? Sign Lee to a 1 year deal? I don't know if he would accept a 1 year deal or not.

[kbwsb]

I'm curious if there will be a market for DLee. Signing a 37-yr old 1st baseman to a long-term deal is a thing of the past. And none of the big-market teams have a hole at 1st base.

[Scarey]

<!--quoteo(post=93798:date=Apr 30 2010, 12:33 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 30 2010, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm curious if there will be a market for DLee. Signing a 37-yr old 1st baseman to a long-term deal is a thing of the past. And none of the big-market teams have a hole at 1st base.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not sure how he keeps magically getting older and older. He's going to be 35 in September. I could see someone giving him a 2 year deal.

[Coldneck]

<!--quoteo(post=93799:date=Apr 30 2010, 01:35 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 30 2010, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93798:date=Apr 30 2010, 12:33 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 30 2010, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm curious if there will be a market for DLee. Signing a 37-yr old 1st baseman to a long-term deal is a thing of the past. And none of the big-market teams have a hole at 1st base.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not sure how he keeps magically getting older and older. He's going to be 35 in September. I could see someone giving him a 2 year deal.
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Hell, I'd be alright giving him a 2 year deal. It's the 3 or 4 year deal I'm sure he'll push for that I'd balk at.

[bz]

<!--quoteo(post=93801:date=Apr 30 2010, 12:42 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 30 2010, 12:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93799:date=Apr 30 2010, 01:35 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 30 2010, 01:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93798:date=Apr 30 2010, 12:33 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 30 2010, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm curious if there will be a market for DLee. Signing a 37-yr old 1st baseman to a long-term deal is a thing of the past. And none of the big-market teams have a hole at 1st base.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not sure how he keeps magically getting older and older. He's going to be 35 in September. I could see someone giving him a 2 year deal.
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Hell, I'd be alright giving him a 2 year deal. It's the 3 or 4 year deal I'm sure he'll push for that I'd balk at.
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Yes, that would be fine. I want him to retire as a Cub, but I want it be at a decent rate.

[CountRushmore]

Even if Lee got a 3 year deal is it possible for him to keep hitting well enough for it to justify his contract (of the type the club would have to give him if he was to be re-signed)? I'd just like opinions, I don't have one myself. I take it his defense wouldn't decrease.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=93850:date=Apr 30 2010, 02:23 PM:name=CountRushmore)-->QUOTE (CountRushmore @ Apr 30 2010, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Even if Lee got a 3 year deal is it possible for him to keep hitting well enough for it to justify his contract (of the type the club would have to give him if he was to be re-signed)? I'd just like opinions, I don't have one myself. I take it his defense wouldn't decrease.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh . . . now this is what the fuck we were talking about.

[Destined]

I want to keep Lee, but the options are tempting.

[kbwsb]

According to Plus/minis and UZR, his defense already HAS been getting worse. Granted, it's still very good, but he's not a Gold-Glover anymore, and it will definitely deteriorate year-by-year as he pushes into his mid and late 30's.

But, yeah, if he's only 34, a couple-year deal isn't at all outrageous. I've always liked him.

[biggz]

I don't place a lot of stock into UZR. The formula is still being tinkered with.

Saw this a couple days ago, I think on MLBTR. Couldn't find the original article.

http://firebrandal.com/2010/04/29/jason-ba.../comment-page-1
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->A little over a week ago fangraphs.com updated their UZR calculations with the first batch of 2010 data. This update included some work on arm skill as well as changes for quirky stadiums including Fenway Park. This change was done to include previous seasons and now Jason Bay made one of the largest gains as his -13.8 runs value became a 1.9 value.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course, Lee's defense will deteriorate due to age. I don't believe a huge dropoff will occur, though. I don't want Lee extended just because he's a fan favorite, but, assuming he can produce (which, obviously, we can't), I'd love him to retire a Cub.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=93873:date=Apr 30 2010, 02:47 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93850:date=Apr 30 2010, 02:23 PM:name=CountRushmore)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CountRushmore @ Apr 30 2010, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Even if Lee got a 3 year deal is it possible for him to keep hitting well enough for it to justify his contract (of the type the club would have to give him if he was to be re-signed)? I'd just like opinions, I don't have one myself. I take it his defense wouldn't decrease.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh . . . now this is what the fuck we were talking about.
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Yes.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=93873:date=Apr 30 2010, 02:47 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 30 2010, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=93850:date=Apr 30 2010, 02:23 PM:name=CountRushmore)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CountRushmore @ Apr 30 2010, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Even if Lee got a 3 year deal is it possible for him to keep hitting well enough for it to justify his contract (of the type the club would have to give him if he was to be re-signed)? I'd just like opinions, I don't have one myself. I take it his defense wouldn't decrease.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh . . . now this is what the fuck we were talking about.
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See what I mean? I don't get it.