Don't tell anyone

[Destined]

<!--quoteo(post=94227:date=May 2 2010, 01:12 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cardinals have an excellent rotation...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=94227:date=May 2 2010, 01:12 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->an excellent bullpen<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=94227:date=May 2 2010, 01:12 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->good defense...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--quoteo(post=94227:date=May 2 2010, 01:12 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->and a very good lineup.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=94225:date=May 2 2010, 03:08 PM:name=Destined)-->QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94215:date=May 2 2010, 12:59 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Why do we need to bring up Castro, exactly?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A few reasons.

<b>A. Youth.</b> Look at what youth can do for a veteran ballclub. In 2007 the momentum and spirit from Theriot and Fontenot was huge in June and July. September came around and Hart and Soto added another jolt of energy. It's been seen time and time again how a youthful presence can energize a team.

<b>B. He's ready. </b>Look at his numbers in Knoxville, and what he did in Spring Training. He's raking, and it looks like he can handle the top prospects in the Southern League pretty well and there's no reason for sending him to Iowa.

<b>C. His style of play.</b> He's a shortstop with range, which puts Theriot at his natural position and improves the defense. Looking strictly at his numbers, he looks like an aggressive jitterbug on the bases. He's going to get nabbed stealing here and there, but he turns doubles into triples and plays with high energy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

A. Youth has nothing to do with it. Gary Gaetti, Jim Edmonds, and Kenny Lofton all had similar impacts. Talent and production energize a team. It doesn't matter how old you are.

B. Maybe. Let's say he was hitting .355, with an OPS of 921 after 275 at bats in AAA. Would he be ready then? Even readier? Those were Ronny Cedeno's numbers in 2005. I'm not saying Castro is Cedeno, but I am saying spring training and a month at AA don't tell us everything.

C. He's a shortsop who made almost 40 errors last year. It doesn't matter if his range allows him to get to more balls he can drop. 40 errors is a LOT of errors.

More to the point, why would we risk rushing a guy up to the majors, starting his arbitration clock early, all to fill a need that doesn't actually exist right now? I'm all for bringing him up if Theriot or Fontenot resume sucking ass again, but right now we aren't "fixing" anything by bumping Fontenot from the lineup and putting in a 20 year old who is shaky with the glove at best at Short.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=94231:date=May 2 2010, 03:19 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->More to the point, why would we risk rushing a guy up to the majors, starting his arbitration clock early, all to fill a need that doesn't actually exist right now? I'm all for bringing him up if Theriot or Fontenot resume sucking ass again, but right now we aren't "fixing" anything by bumping Fontenot from the lineup and putting in a 20 year old who is shaky with the glove at best at Short.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

You make a good point. The day will come when we need him. There's no rush right now.

[Destined]

<!--quoteo(post=94231:date=May 2 2010, 01:19 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94225:date=May 2 2010, 03:08 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94215:date=May 2 2010, 12:59 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Why do we need to bring up Castro, exactly?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A few reasons.

<b>A. Youth.</b> Look at what youth can do for a veteran ballclub. In 2007 the momentum and spirit from Theriot and Fontenot was huge in June and July. September came around and Hart and Soto added another jolt of energy. It's been seen time and time again how a youthful presence can energize a team.

<b>B. He's ready. </b>Look at his numbers in Knoxville, and what he did in Spring Training. He's raking, and it looks like he can handle the top prospects in the Southern League pretty well and there's no reason for sending him to Iowa.

<b>C. His style of play.</b> He's a shortstop with range, which puts Theriot at his natural position and improves the defense. Looking strictly at his numbers, he looks like an aggressive jitterbug on the bases. He's going to get nabbed stealing here and there, but he turns doubles into triples and plays with high energy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

A. Youth has nothing to do with it. Gary Gaetti, Jim Edmonds, and Kenny Lofton all had similar impacts. Talent and production energize a team. It doesn't matter how old you are.

B. Maybe. Let's say he was hitting .355, with an OPS of 921 after 275 at bats in AAA. Would he be ready then? Even readier? Those were Ronny Cedeno's numbers in 2005. I'm not saying Castro is Cedeno, but I am saying spring training and a month at AA don't tell us everything.

C. He's a shortsop who made almost 40 errors last year. It doesn't matter if his range allows him to get to more balls he can drop. 40 errors is a LOT of errors.

More to the point, why would we risk rushing a guy up to the majors, starting his arbitration clock early, all to fill a need that doesn't actually exist right now? I'm all for bringing him up if Theriot or Fontenot resume sucking ass again, but right now we aren't "fixing" anything by bumping Fontenot from the lineup and putting in a 20 year old who is shaky with the glove at best at Short.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree about Gaetti, Edmonds and Lofton. Good point. I do think youth still plays a role though. It's the carefree attitude and energy a player plays with that does it.

His numbers don't tell us everything, right. Like how numerous people around the organization said he wasn't nervous or cocky in ST and unlike other former Cubs prospects, he acted like he belonged. But really though, it's not like his numbers are a fluke. He's been consistent for an extended period going back a year or so in the minors and fall league. Give him better coaching and risk throwing him into the fire. If you want to hold the clock, then bring him up May 25th to start a home-stand with LA and STL. Jay Bruce and Ryan Braun were brought up around that time and weren't 'Super Twos'.

I see your concern about his defense, but all shortstops make a ton of errors in the minors.

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=94229:date=May 2 2010, 04:18 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 2 2010, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With regard to Silva: I want Z back in the rotation. We can't carry 6 starters. I'm for dealing the guy we can sell high. If that's Sloth, I'm fine with that but I suspect it will be Silva. A good, veteran middle reliever is something we can't say no to.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd imagine Silva's contract will mean that if one of them is traded, it's Gorzelanny.

[Destined]

BT, Derek Jeter had 56 errors in 1993 for Greensboro.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=94245:date=May 2 2010, 03:46 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ May 2 2010, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94229:date=May 2 2010, 04:18 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 2 2010, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With regard to Silva: I want Z back in the rotation. We can't carry 6 starters. I'm for dealing the guy we can sell high. If that's Sloth, I'm fine with that but I suspect it will be Silva. A good, veteran middle reliever is something we can't say no to.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd imagine Silva's contract will mean that if one of them is traded, it's Gorzaelanny.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'd think the hotter pitcher will be the easier to trade, almost regardless of the contract...if the recipient is looking for help right away and can spare quality relief.

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=94250:date=May 2 2010, 04:52 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 2 2010, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94245:date=May 2 2010, 03:46 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ May 2 2010, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94229:date=May 2 2010, 04:18 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 2 2010, 04:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With regard to Silva: I want Z back in the rotation. We can't carry 6 starters. I'm for dealing the guy we can sell high. If that's Sloth, I'm fine with that but I suspect it will be Silva. A good, veteran middle reliever is something we can't say no to.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd imagine Silva's contract will mean that if one of them is traded, it's Gorzaelanny.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'd think the hotter pitcher will be the easier to trade, almost regardless of the contract...if the recipient is looking for help right away and can spare quality relief.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh. I think they'll be hard pressed to get someone willing to take on a $13.5 million contract for 2011 (including a $2M buyout for 2012).

[Ace]

What about not trading either and just, you know, putting Silva in the pen?

[funkster]

I don't think there's an urgency right now to bring him up, but if he continues the way he's going there really is no reason to leave him in Tennessee. If he's ready he's ready.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=94252:date=May 2 2010, 03:55 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->What about not trading either and just, you know, putting Silva in the pen?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well, that's what I thought we should've done when Lilly came back but Lou knows better than me.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=94247:date=May 2 2010, 03:49 PM:name=Destined)-->QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->BT, Derek Jeter had 56 errors in 1993 for Greensboro.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's exactly right. And the Yankees waited until 1995, after he made only 25 errors in 1994, before they installed him at short.

The fact that Castro had 40 errors as a 19 year old doesn't mean he is going to be a terrible defender. He might end up a gold glove SS one day. But it sure makes the argument that we should bring him up NOW to improve our defense seem sort of silly.

[Destined]

<!--quoteo(post=94259:date=May 2 2010, 01:58 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94247:date=May 2 2010, 03:49 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->BT, Derek Jeter had 56 errors in 1993 for Greensboro.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's exactly right. And the Yankees waited until 1995, after he made only 25 errors in 1994, before they installed him at short.

The fact that Castro had 40 errors as a 19 year old doesn't mean he is going to be a terrible defender. He might end up a gold glove SS one day. But it sure makes the argument that we should bring him up NOW to improve our defense seem sort of silly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand that, but so far he's turning the corner. Yes, small sample size...but:

Errors per game:

2009: 0.328 (39 in 119)
2010: 0.136 (3 in 22 / on pace for 16 in 119)

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=94264:date=May 2 2010, 04:02 PM:name=Destined)-->QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94259:date=May 2 2010, 01:58 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94247:date=May 2 2010, 03:49 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->BT, Derek Jeter had 56 errors in 1993 for Greensboro.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's exactly right. And the Yankees waited until 1995, after he made only 25 errors in 1994, before they installed him at short.

The fact that Castro had 40 errors as a 19 year old doesn't mean he is going to be a terrible defender. He might end up a gold glove SS one day. But it sure makes the argument that we should bring him up NOW to improve our defense seem sort of silly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand that, but so far he's turning the corner. Yes, small sample size...but:

Errors per game:

2009: 0.328 (39 in 119)
2010: 0.136 (3 in 22 / on pace for 16 in 119)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

AGAIN, he might eventually be fine as a shortstop. Maybe this year even. But one month of good defense does not negate a 40 error season (for the record, errors can be a shitty defensive metric, I just think 40 errors is too many to ignore). Maybe he has turned the corner. Maybe he will be dazzling from here on out. But the fact is, he was BAD last year, and the sample size this year is far too small to anoint him as a defensive upgrade, and still keep a straight face.

And if we aren't bringing him up for his glove, and our 2 MI's are actually doing pretty well with the bat, then why are we bringing him up, exactly?

[biggz]

I really don't want him rushed ala Patterson, Pie, etc., etc. IF he keeps raking, and one of Fontenot/Baker/Tracy is struggling in, say, June, I wouldn't mind a callup if we're still in it.