Pirates vs. Cubs 5/14/10

[Butcher]

Fucking shit.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=96300:date=May 14 2010, 03:08 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The argument (devil's advocacy) for Z over Sloth in the pen is that Lou didn't need a guy to kill innings in a blowout, he needed a guy that can get out of a jam and/or hold a lead for Marmol...and until Hendry can find that guy, Sloth isn't that guy and Z can be.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the theory behind it. It's just a faulty theory.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=96302:date=May 14 2010, 03:11 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 14 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96300:date=May 14 2010, 03:08 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The argument (devil's advocacy) for Z over Sloth in the pen is that Lou didn't need a guy to kill innings in a blowout, he needed a guy that can get out of a jam and/or hold a lead for Marmol...and until Hendry can find that guy, Sloth isn't that guy and Z can be.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the theory behind it. It's just a faulty theory.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And I agree with you. It's playing to not lose, rather than playing to win. Your best starters should start.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=96303:date=May 14 2010, 03:13 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96302:date=May 14 2010, 03:11 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 14 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96300:date=May 14 2010, 03:08 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The argument (devil's advocacy) for Z over Sloth in the pen is that Lou didn't need a guy to kill innings in a blowout, he needed a guy that can get out of a jam and/or hold a lead for Marmol...and until Hendry can find that guy, Sloth isn't that guy and Z can be.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the theory behind it. It's just a faulty theory.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And I agree with you. It's playing to not lose, rather than playing to win. Your best starters should start.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was also a high risk, low reward move. I would compare it to moving your best hitter to a PH role just to have him available when you need him late in games. Too bad you need him to bat as much as possible, not just to come in a few times a week in big situations. Just indefensible.

[Butcher]

Mother FUCKER

[Clapp]

Caridad still doesn't look right to me. His stuff looked way better last year and in Spring Training even. And Jones absolutely crushed that.

[rok]

So we just can't beat the Pirates anymore. I don't recognize this world any longer.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=96308:date=May 14 2010, 03:23 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 14 2010, 03:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So we just can't beat the Pirates anymore. I don't recognize this world any longer.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They have one or two guys on their team that are hitting .300, but they look like Murderer's Row against us.

[Fella]

<!--quoteo(post=96305:date=May 14 2010, 02:19 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 14 2010, 02:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96303:date=May 14 2010, 03:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96302:date=May 14 2010, 03:11 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 14 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96300:date=May 14 2010, 03:08 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The argument (devil's advocacy) for Z over Sloth in the pen is that Lou didn't need a guy to kill innings in a blowout, he needed a guy that can get out of a jam and/or hold a lead for Marmol...and until Hendry can find that guy, Sloth isn't that guy and Z can be.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the theory behind it. It's just a faulty theory.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And I agree with you. It's playing to not lose, rather than playing to win. Your best starters should start.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was also a high risk, low reward move. I would compare it to moving your best hitter to a PH role just to have him available when you need him late in games. Too bad you need him to bat as much as possible, not just to come in a few times a week in big situations. Just indefensible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah he is pitching literally about 1/8th as many innings, not the smartest thing to do with one of your most talented pitchers. Eventually that has to be fixed if we have any hope of making a run. Unfortunately it probably ruined the Z/Cubs relationship forever either way by now.

I still think when the trade market becomes active we will do something and move him back to the rotation, as long as we aren't completely out of it by then. If he stays a reliever all year, its gonna be yet another messy offseason. He is gonna want out.

[rok]

WTF is wrong with Doumit's face? He has dead eyes. He is an empty vessel.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=96305:date=May 14 2010, 03:19 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 14 2010, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96303:date=May 14 2010, 03:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96302:date=May 14 2010, 03:11 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 14 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96300:date=May 14 2010, 03:08 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The argument (devil's advocacy) for Z over Sloth in the pen is that Lou didn't need a guy to kill innings in a blowout, he needed a guy that can get out of a jam and/or hold a lead for Marmol...and until Hendry can find that guy, Sloth isn't that guy and Z can be.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the theory behind it. It's just a faulty theory.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And I agree with you. It's playing to not lose, rather than playing to win. Your best starters should start.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was also a high risk, low reward move. I would compare it to moving your best hitter to a PH role just to have him available when you need him late in games. Too bad you need him to bat as much as possible, not just to come in a few times a week in big situations. Just indefensible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I totally disagree. Again, not the move I would make, but it's completely defensible. Or to put it another way, it was as defensible as any other move they were faced with. If they move Silva or Gorz to the pen, they are moving pitchers that were actually pitching better than Zambrano, while at the same time doing nothing to help the Cubs in the 8th inning, as I can't imagine either guy in an 8th inning role.

Of course thinking like this means I'm pro-management. So there's that.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=96305:date=May 14 2010, 03:19 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 14 2010, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96303:date=May 14 2010, 03:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96302:date=May 14 2010, 03:11 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 14 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96300:date=May 14 2010, 03:08 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The argument (devil's advocacy) for Z over Sloth in the pen is that Lou didn't need a guy to kill innings in a blowout, he needed a guy that can get out of a jam and/or hold a lead for Marmol...and until Hendry can find that guy, Sloth isn't that guy and Z can be.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the theory behind it. It's just a faulty theory.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And I agree with you. It's playing to not lose, rather than playing to win. Your best starters should start.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was also a high risk, low reward move. I would compare it to moving your best hitter to a PH role just to have him available when you need him late in games. Too bad you need him to bat as much as possible, not just to come in a few times a week in big situations. Just indefensible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

This is the best, most concise argument against this as I've seen. Good analogy.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=96314:date=May 14 2010, 03:26 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ May 14 2010, 03:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96305:date=May 14 2010, 03:19 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 14 2010, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96303:date=May 14 2010, 03:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96302:date=May 14 2010, 03:11 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ May 14 2010, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96300:date=May 14 2010, 03:08 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 14 2010, 03:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The argument (devil's advocacy) for Z over Sloth in the pen is that Lou didn't need a guy to kill innings in a blowout, he needed a guy that can get out of a jam and/or hold a lead for Marmol...and until Hendry can find that guy, Sloth isn't that guy and Z can be.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I get the theory behind it. It's just a faulty theory.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And I agree with you. It's playing to not lose, rather than playing to win. Your best starters should start.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was also a high risk, low reward move. I would compare it to moving your best hitter to a PH role just to have him available when you need him late in games. Too bad you need him to bat as much as possible, not just to come in a few times a week in big situations. Just indefensible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I totally disagree. Again, not the move I would make, but it's completely defensible. Or to put it another way, it was as defensible as any other move they were faced with. If they move Silva or Gorz to the pen, <b>they are moving pitchers that were actually pitching better than Zambrano,</b> while at the same time doing nothing to help the Cubs in the 8th inning, as I can't imagine either guy in an 8th inning role.

Of course thinking like this means I'm pro-management. So there's that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the part that blows my mind. Yes -- they were pitching better than Zambrano at the time the decision was made. In how many starts? How can you move arguably our best starter to the pen because he had a few rough starts and Silva (the *worst* starting pitcher in baseball the last couple of years) and Gorz had a few good starts? How can you defend this move? Why can't you imagine Silva and/or Gorz in the 8th inning, but you can imagine Z there? Is there something magical about that particular inning? At this rate, Gorz and Silva will both pitch 3 times as many innings as Z. It makes no sense.

[Clapp]

I'm really excited for the ending of this game on Monday. Should be a good finish.

[Butcher]

Jeff Garlin has a funny laugh.