Hanley Ramirez

[Coach]

The difference in the Cox-Jones situation is that Jones realized that he was at fault.
Hanley had to be convinced by David Ortiz that he was wrong.



And I saw no limping in the stroll towards the ball.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=97292:date=May 20 2010, 09:03 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ May 20 2010, 09:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The difference in the Cox-Jones situation is that Jones realized that he was at fault.
Hanley had to be convinced by David Ortiz that he was wrong.



And I saw no limping in the stroll towards the ball.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one is defending how Ramirez handled things.

[Dirk]

<!--quoteo(post=97211:date=May 19 2010, 09:51 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97204:date=May 19 2010, 08:42 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 19 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97202:date=May 19 2010, 08:35 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Hanley's quote about Fredi never playing in MLB was pretty dumb. For the record, no player of Hanley's ability has <i>ever</i> been a great MLB manager. (although Ted Williams was pretty good with hitters).

Almost all of the great ones were scrappers who had to fight for every inch, not pampered superstars with so much natural ability that they could play at 75% and still dominate.
Earl Weaver never played a day in the majors.

John McGraw was actually a good player, but that was over 100 years ago. And Joe Torre was a <i>damn</i> good player. But they're exceptions.

I'm glad management backed Fredi.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

THIS has always worried me about Ryno as a manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, what stood out about Ryno was that he approached the game like a scrapper, even though he was immensely talented. So i don't worry about that aspect.

With Ryno, I do worry about his basic philosophies...<i>really</i> old school, as if the past decade of front-office knowledge had never happened.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly I don't even know that means. Like he makes all of his players wear flannel jerseys and knee-high socks?

[Coldneck]

I freakin love Andre Dawson. Why doesn't he work for the Cubs?

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Andre Dawson was absolutely direct in telling Hanley Ramirez what he needed to do, writes Joe Capozzi in this terrific story. From the piece:

The door closed, and Andre Dawson looked directly into Hanley Ramirez's eyes.

"I'm not going to say a lot, because if you say the wrong … thing to me, then you might wind up on the floor on your rear end," Dawson said with Tony Perez standing by his side in a coach's office at Sun Life Stadium.

For 15 minutes, Ramirez sat and listened as the two Hall of Famers, who also work as Marlins assistants, tried to assess for Ramirez exactly the damage he had done to himself by ripping into his manager for pulling him off the field Monday night because he didn't hustle.

Dawson said he did most of the talking in this intervention, which took place about an hour before Tuesday's game. Dawson today recounted it like this:

"Look, I'm going to level with you," he told Ramirez. "You either hear me or you don't. For one, you're not bigger than the game. You don't show a manager up. The way you're going about this is literally the wrong way. It's an immature act … and this could come back to bite you in the rear end in the worst way."

Ramirez didn't say a word. His eyes darted from Dawson's to Perez's and then he looked away.

"You really have stepped across the line," Dawson said. "You owe that manager a sincere apology. And if you think your teammates have your back with this, you've got another thing coming because the mind-set, and this is from me to you, the mind-set is these guys are laughing at you."

The Marlins' shortstop returned to the lineup, after apologizing to teammates. Now the Marlins can just go out and play baseball.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That said, this should have never made it to the media. Why pile on Hanley. The Marlins organization needs to check itself.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=97305:date=May 20 2010, 10:11 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ May 20 2010, 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I freakin love Andre Dawson. Why doesn't he work for the Cubs?

That said, this should have never made it to the media. Why pile on Hanley. The Marlins organization needs to check itself.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes and yes. Your second comment was my initial reaction.

How did the press get a recap of a meeting between these three men?

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=97325:date=May 20 2010, 11:59 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 20 2010, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->How did the press get a recap of a meeting between these three men?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Including details like "Ramirez didn't say a word. His eyes darted from Dawson's to Perez's and then he looked away." It almost seems like there was either a reporter in the room or the writer of this article added this for dramatic effect.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=97327:date=May 20 2010, 12:07 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ May 20 2010, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97325:date=May 20 2010, 11:59 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 20 2010, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->How did the press get a recap of a meeting between these three men?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Including details like "Ramirez didn't say a word. His eyes darted from Dawson's to Perez's and then he looked away." It almost seems like there was either a reporter in the room or the writer of this article added this for dramatic effect.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Something is fishy. A reporter would never be invited to such a meeting.

[kbwsb]

<!--quoteo(post=97294:date=May 20 2010, 09:19 AM:name=Dirk)-->QUOTE (Dirk @ May 20 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97211:date=May 19 2010, 09:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97204:date=May 19 2010, 08:42 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 19 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97202:date=May 19 2010, 08:35 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Hanley's quote about Fredi never playing in MLB was pretty dumb. For the record, no player of Hanley's ability has <i>ever</i> been a great MLB manager. (although Ted Williams was pretty good with hitters).

Almost all of the great ones were scrappers who had to fight for every inch, not pampered superstars with so much natural ability that they could play at 75% and still dominate.
Earl Weaver never played a day in the majors.

John McGraw was actually a good player, but that was over 100 years ago. And Joe Torre was a <i>damn</i> good player. But they're exceptions.

I'm glad management backed Fredi.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS has always worried me about Ryno as a manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, what stood out about Ryno was that he approached the game like a scrapper, even though he was immensely talented. So i don't worry about that aspect.
With Ryno, I do worry about his basic philosophies...<i>really</i> old school, as if the past decade of front-office knowledge had never happened.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly I don't even know that means. Like he makes all of his players wear flannel jerseys and knee-high socks?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thinks a bunt in the first inning is a good weapon. That kind of stuff.
Like everyone on this site, Ryno's my man, right or wrong, but ideally, I was hoping for a different kind of skipper.
But honestly, most of a manager's job is to control the clubhouse. I think Ryno's proven in the minors that he's got a pretty solid handle on that. And no player can ever pull the bullshit that Hanley Ramirez pulled on Fredi. How can you pretend you know more about being a star than a guy who's already <i>in the Hall of Fame</i>?

Go Ryno!

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=97331:date=May 20 2010, 12:19 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 20 2010, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97294:date=May 20 2010, 09:19 AM:name=Dirk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dirk @ May 20 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97211:date=May 19 2010, 09:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97204:date=May 19 2010, 08:42 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 19 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97202:date=May 19 2010, 08:35 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Hanley's quote about Fredi never playing in MLB was pretty dumb. For the record, no player of Hanley's ability has <i>ever</i> been a great MLB manager. (although Ted Williams was pretty good with hitters).

Almost all of the great ones were scrappers who had to fight for every inch, not pampered superstars with so much natural ability that they could play at 75% and still dominate.
Earl Weaver never played a day in the majors.

John McGraw was actually a good player, but that was over 100 years ago. And Joe Torre was a <i>damn</i> good player. But they're exceptions.

I'm glad management backed Fredi.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS has always worried me about Ryno as a manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, what stood out about Ryno was that he approached the game like a scrapper, even though he was immensely talented. So i don't worry about that aspect.
With Ryno, I do worry about his basic philosophies...<i>really</i> old school, as if the past decade of front-office knowledge had never happened.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly I don't even know that means. Like he makes all of his players wear flannel jerseys and knee-high socks?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thinks a bunt in the first inning is a good weapon. That kind of stuff.
Like everyone on this site, Ryno's my man, right or wrong, but ideally, I was hoping for a different kind of skipper.
But honestly, most of a manager's job is to control the clubhouse. I think Ryno's proven in the minors that he's got a pretty solid handle on that. And no player can ever pull the bullshit that Hanley Ramirez pulled on Fredi. How can you pretend you know more about being a star than a guy who's already <i>in the Hall of Fame</i>?

Go Ryno!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would you have any idea what Sandberg is like as a manager? Aside from box scores (and maybe a game here or there), there's nothing you've ever seen him do as a manager.

[Coach]

<!--quoteo(post=97354:date=May 20 2010, 01:52 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 20 2010, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97331:date=May 20 2010, 12:19 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 20 2010, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97294:date=May 20 2010, 09:19 AM:name=Dirk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dirk @ May 20 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97211:date=May 19 2010, 09:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97204:date=May 19 2010, 08:42 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 19 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97202:date=May 19 2010, 08:35 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Hanley's quote about Fredi never playing in MLB was pretty dumb. For the record, no player of Hanley's ability has <i>ever</i> been a great MLB manager. (although Ted Williams was pretty good with hitters).

Almost all of the great ones were scrappers who had to fight for every inch, not pampered superstars with so much natural ability that they could play at 75% and still dominate.
Earl Weaver never played a day in the majors.

John McGraw was actually a good player, but that was over 100 years ago. And Joe Torre was a <i>damn</i> good player. But they're exceptions.

I'm glad management backed Fredi.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS has always worried me about Ryno as a manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, what stood out about Ryno was that he approached the game like a scrapper, even though he was immensely talented. So i don't worry about that aspect.
With Ryno, I do worry about his basic philosophies...<i>really</i> old school, as if the past decade of front-office knowledge had never happened.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly I don't even know that means. Like he makes all of his players wear flannel jerseys and knee-high socks?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thinks a bunt in the first inning is a good weapon. That kind of stuff.
Like everyone on this site, Ryno's my man, right or wrong, but ideally, I was hoping for a different kind of skipper.
But honestly, most of a manager's job is to control the clubhouse. I think Ryno's proven in the minors that he's got a pretty solid handle on that. And no player can ever pull the bullshit that Hanley Ramirez pulled on Fredi. How can you pretend you know more about being a star than a guy who's already <i>in the Hall of Fame</i>?

Go Ryno!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would you have any idea what Sandberg is like as a manager? Aside from box scores (and maybe a game here or there), there's nothing you've ever seen him do as a manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KB has probably seen Ryno manage a game this year.
Plus, his style is well documented.

[rok]

I would guess that a MAJOR part of managing in the minor leagues involves teaching fundamentals like bunting, how to read pitchers on steal attempt, sacrificing runners, and all the other so-called "old school" ways of playing the game. Therefore, some of what he has asked his players to do in the past can be misleading. I don't believe for a second that Ryno would manage a big league club in that way. I'm not saying he would never ask his players to give up outs in certain situations, but I can't honestly pretend to know if that is his true philosophy on winning baseball overall.

[Dirk]

<!--quoteo(post=97331:date=May 20 2010, 01:19 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 20 2010, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97294:date=May 20 2010, 09:19 AM:name=Dirk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dirk @ May 20 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97211:date=May 19 2010, 09:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97204:date=May 19 2010, 08:42 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 19 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97202:date=May 19 2010, 08:35 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Hanley's quote about Fredi never playing in MLB was pretty dumb. For the record, no player of Hanley's ability has <i>ever</i> been a great MLB manager. (although Ted Williams was pretty good with hitters).

Almost all of the great ones were scrappers who had to fight for every inch, not pampered superstars with so much natural ability that they could play at 75% and still dominate.
Earl Weaver never played a day in the majors.

John McGraw was actually a good player, but that was over 100 years ago. And Joe Torre was a <i>damn</i> good player. But they're exceptions.

I'm glad management backed Fredi.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS has always worried me about Ryno as a manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, what stood out about Ryno was that he approached the game like a scrapper, even though he was immensely talented. So i don't worry about that aspect.
With Ryno, I do worry about his basic philosophies...<i>really</i> old school, as if the past decade of front-office knowledge had never happened.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly I don't even know that means. Like he makes all of his players wear flannel jerseys and knee-high socks?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thinks a bunt in the first inning is a good weapon. That kind of stuff.
Like everyone on this site, Ryno's my man, right or wrong, but ideally, I was hoping for a different kind of skipper.
But honestly, most of a manager's job is to control the clubhouse. I think Ryno's proven in the minors that he's got a pretty solid handle on that. And no player can ever pull the bullshit that Hanley Ramirez pulled on Fredi. How can you pretend you know more about being a star than a guy who's already <i>in the Hall of Fame</i>?

Go Ryno!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I realize you're exaggerating to suggest that Ryno would throw the book on statistics out the window on go with old fashioned grit and hustle but don't you think it would be more likely that he'd play the percentages, rely on thorough scouting and you know, manage the game pretty much the way just about every other manager does? I'm sure he'd also be a stickler for hustling and playing the game right in the process, but that sounds like a bonus to me.

[veryzer]

The more i think about this, the more I'm convinced Gonzalez, and then Dawson, handled this absolutely right. I have nothing but respect for both of them Fuck Hanley ramirez.

[rok]

Andre handled the situation like a man. That's the way you do things.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=97356:date=May 20 2010, 12:58 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ May 20 2010, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97354:date=May 20 2010, 01:52 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 20 2010, 01:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97331:date=May 20 2010, 12:19 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 20 2010, 12:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97294:date=May 20 2010, 09:19 AM:name=Dirk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dirk @ May 20 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97211:date=May 19 2010, 09:51 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 09:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97204:date=May 19 2010, 08:42 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 19 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97202:date=May 19 2010, 08:35 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 19 2010, 08:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Hanley's quote about Fredi never playing in MLB was pretty dumb. For the record, no player of Hanley's ability has <i>ever</i> been a great MLB manager. (although Ted Williams was pretty good with hitters).

Almost all of the great ones were scrappers who had to fight for every inch, not pampered superstars with so much natural ability that they could play at 75% and still dominate.
Earl Weaver never played a day in the majors.

John McGraw was actually a good player, but that was over 100 years ago. And Joe Torre was a <i>damn</i> good player. But they're exceptions.

I'm glad management backed Fredi.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THIS has always worried me about Ryno as a manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be honest, what stood out about Ryno was that he approached the game like a scrapper, even though he was immensely talented. So i don't worry about that aspect.
With Ryno, I do worry about his basic philosophies...<i>really</i> old school, as if the past decade of front-office knowledge had never happened.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly I don't even know that means. Like he makes all of his players wear flannel jerseys and knee-high socks?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thinks a bunt in the first inning is a good weapon. That kind of stuff.
Like everyone on this site, Ryno's my man, right or wrong, but ideally, I was hoping for a different kind of skipper.
But honestly, most of a manager's job is to control the clubhouse. I think Ryno's proven in the minors that he's got a pretty solid handle on that. And no player can ever pull the bullshit that Hanley Ramirez pulled on Fredi. How can you pretend you know more about being a star than a guy who's already <i>in the Hall of Fame</i>?

Go Ryno!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How would you have any idea what Sandberg is like as a manager? Aside from box scores (and maybe a game here or there), there's nothing you've ever seen him do as a manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KB has probably seen Ryno manage a game this year.
Plus, his style is well documented.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, his style of trying to teach developing players good fundamentals. Also, what one can gleen about a manager's in game strategy at the MiLB level can't even be compared to what would happen on the MLB level, it's apples and hammers. The fact of the matter is, none of us will know what kind of manager he would be on the MLB level until it actually happens.