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<!--quoteo(post=96943:date=May 19 2010, 08:22 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 19 2010, 08:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96937:date=May 19 2010, 07:47 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 19 2010, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Holy fucking shit, I can't believe what I am reading here. I didn't click on this link because I assumed I knew what everyone was going to say, but I finally get around to it this morning and am completely stunned by what I'm reading. It is utterly inconceivable to me that you guys can watch that play, and conclude the MANAGER is the one at fault. Ramirez fucking DOGGED it completely. The fact that the runs might have scored anyway is entirely beside the point. Not only did he dog it, but he was a complete fuckstick when asked about it. I don't care how fucking good a guy is, you DON'T disrespect the manger. And I don't care how fucking good a guy is, the manager HAS to take him out after a play like that. Otherwise he has no credibility.
Ramirez either didn't care, or was too hurt to play. Either way, he had to come out.
For the love of Christ, if Soriano had pulled this shit, you guys would be asking for him to be released. You'd all be blowing Lou for having the balls to call him on it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think they are both dicks. Ramirez probably the bigger dick. However, the way Gonzalez handled things in the press was beyond unnecessary. What did he accomplish by calling out his star player in the media? Pulling him was fine. Hurt or not, Ramirez shouldn't have been out there. Do things like a man, in private, and then you avoid embarrassment and looking petty. Ramirez's comments were idiotic, and I'm not defending them, but it never should have got to that point in the first place.
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If Gonzalez wanted to shame Ramirez into giving an actual effort next time, then I see no problem with him calling him out.
I'd also add that we haven't the foggiest idea if Gonzalez tried this in private and Ramirez told him to bite his wiener. And if private ridicule doesn't work, then public is the next step.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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Here's the clip for anyone who hasn't seen it.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JQcIOjIwREU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JQcIOjIwREU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
I got nothin'.
Andy
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<!--quoteo(post=96954:date=May 19 2010, 09:09 AM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ May 19 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Here's the clip for anyone who hasn't seen it.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JQcIOjIwREU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JQcIOjIwREU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hustling more would have made little to no difference in that instance IMO.
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<!--quoteo(post=96955:date=May 19 2010, 10:12 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 19 2010, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96954:date=May 19 2010, 09:09 AM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ May 19 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Here's the clip for anyone who hasn't seen it.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JQcIOjIwREU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JQcIOjIwREU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hustling more would have made little to no difference in that instance IMO.
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It would have made all the difference. He wouldn't have been pulled from the game and there'd be no controversy.
Plus, the runner never would have made it to 3B. Or scored on the following play.
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<!--quoteo(post=96957:date=May 19 2010, 09:19 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ May 19 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96955:date=May 19 2010, 10:12 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 19 2010, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96954:date=May 19 2010, 09:09 AM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ May 19 2010, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Here's the clip for anyone who hasn't seen it.
<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/JQcIOjIwREU&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/JQcIOjIwREU&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hustling more would have made little to no difference in that instance IMO.
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It would have made all the difference. He wouldn't have been pulled from the game and there'd be no controversy.
Plus, the runner never would have made it to 3B. Or scored on the following play.
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Looked to me that the runner would have made it to 3rd regardless after the ball was booted (which had little to do with not hustling, more just a sloppy play at first), but I could be wrong. I'm not excusing it, just saying.
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That looked like a real piss poor effort to me.
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Whether or not the runners would have scored is beside the point. Without all the pertinent facts its hard to determine whether or not Gonzalez acted inappropriately by speaking to the media about this. Regardless, I do wish more managers had the balls to do this when the primadonna superstars act like this.
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<!--quoteo(post=97004:date=May 19 2010, 01:13 PM:name=funkster)-->QUOTE (funkster @ May 19 2010, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Whether or not the runners would have scored is beside the point. Without all the pertinent facts its hard to determine whether or not Gonzalez acted inappropriately by speaking to the media about this. Regardless, I do wish more managers had the balls to do this when the primadonna superstars act like this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't. I think taking him out of the game and "resting him" for a couple of days should be the extent of the managers public actions. Anything involving words should be man to man and not something one man reads the other man saying in the paper. I have no sympathy for Ramirez' hurt pride...and this may actually be effective but it doesn't show Gonzalez in the best light. Whether or not a manager needs to use the media to humiliate a player, he should never look like he needs to.
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<!--quoteo(post=97006:date=May 19 2010, 01:18 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 19 2010, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=97004:date=May 19 2010, 01:13 PM:name=funkster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (funkster @ May 19 2010, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Whether or not the runners would have scored is beside the point. Without all the pertinent facts its hard to determine whether or not Gonzalez acted inappropriately by speaking to the media about this. Regardless, I do wish more managers had the balls to do this when the primadonna superstars act like this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't. I think taking him out of the game and "resting him" for a couple of days should be the extent of the managers public actions. Anything involving words should be man to man and not something one man reads the other man saying in the paper. I have no sympathy for Ramirez' hurt pride...and this may actually be effective but it doesn't show Gonzalez in the best light. Whether or not a manager needs to use the media to humiliate a player, he should never look like he needs to.
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I actually meant had the balls to sit their superstars, not necessarily calling them out in the media.
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<!--quoteo(post=96945:date=May 19 2010, 09:25 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 19 2010, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96941:date=May 19 2010, 08:19 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ May 19 2010, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96937:date=May 19 2010, 07:47 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 19 2010, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Holy fucking shit, I can't believe what I am reading here. I didn't click on this link because I assumed I knew what everyone was going to say, but I finally get around to it this morning and am completely stunned by what I'm reading. It is utterly inconceivable to me that you guys can watch that play, and conclude the MANAGER is the one at fault. Ramirez fucking DOGGED it completely. The fact that the runs might have scored anyway is entirely beside the point. Not only did he dog it, but he was a complete fuckstick when asked about it. I don't care how fucking good a guy is, you DON'T disrespect the manger. And I don't care how fucking good a guy is, the manager HAS to take him out after a play like that. Otherwise he has no credibility.
Ramirez either didn't care, or was too hurt to play. Either way, he had to come out.
For the love of Christ, if Soriano had pulled this shit, you guys would be asking for him to be released. You'd all be blowing Lou for having the balls to call him on it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Life is so much better when I agree with you completely.
And one more thing about Bobby Cox....he pulled Andruw Jones off the field in the middle of an inning and then berated him on the bench in front of the cameras and the world. I have no doubt that that came up with the media after the game.
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That's exactly what I was referring to, but Cox never turned the moment into a reality TV scandal like Gonzalez did. This is all about covering his ass. There are ways to handle things, and this wasn't the best way to do so. Again, Gonzalez will pay the most for this over his career, not Ramirez.
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Cox stopped the game to pull out Jones.
Gonzalez waited until the inning was over, had a discussion in the dugout, then removed him.
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<!--quoteo(post=97014:date=May 19 2010, 01:42 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ May 19 2010, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96945:date=May 19 2010, 09:25 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 19 2010, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96941:date=May 19 2010, 08:19 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ May 19 2010, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96937:date=May 19 2010, 07:47 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 19 2010, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Holy fucking shit, I can't believe what I am reading here. I didn't click on this link because I assumed I knew what everyone was going to say, but I finally get around to it this morning and am completely stunned by what I'm reading. It is utterly inconceivable to me that you guys can watch that play, and conclude the MANAGER is the one at fault. Ramirez fucking DOGGED it completely. The fact that the runs might have scored anyway is entirely beside the point. Not only did he dog it, but he was a complete fuckstick when asked about it. I don't care how fucking good a guy is, you DON'T disrespect the manger. And I don't care how fucking good a guy is, the manager HAS to take him out after a play like that. Otherwise he has no credibility.
Ramirez either didn't care, or was too hurt to play. Either way, he had to come out.
For the love of Christ, if Soriano had pulled this shit, you guys would be asking for him to be released. You'd all be blowing Lou for having the balls to call him on it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Life is so much better when I agree with you completely.
And one more thing about Bobby Cox....he pulled Andruw Jones off the field in the middle of an inning and then berated him on the bench in front of the cameras and the world. I have no doubt that that came up with the media after the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what I was referring to, but Cox never turned the moment into a reality TV scandal like Gonzalez did. This is all about covering his ass. There are ways to handle things, and this wasn't the best way to do so. Again, Gonzalez will pay the most for this over his career, not Ramirez.
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Cox stopped the game to pull out Jones.
Gonzalez waited until the inning was over, had a discussion in the dugout, then removed him.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand that, but Cox didn't go to the media afterward and turn it into a media circus. He did things like a grown-up should, with his actions on the field and in private, by managing. Jones responded to that. Ramirez reacted the wrong way, but that was only after Gonzalez fired the first shots and escalated it.
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The only thing I think Gonzalez did wrong was waiting until the inning was over to pull him.
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<!--quoteo(post=97032:date=May 19 2010, 02:18 PM:name=Dirk)-->QUOTE (Dirk @ May 19 2010, 02:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The only thing I think Gonzalez did wrong was waiting until the inning was over to pull him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually would have preferred that. Gonzalez should have gone out and asked Ramirez if something was wrong, and then pulled him right then and there after the play, not wait and stew in it, then spill his soul to the media. That isn't managing. It's creating more issues.
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<!--quoteo(post=96945:date=May 19 2010, 08:25 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 19 2010, 08:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96941:date=May 19 2010, 08:19 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ May 19 2010, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96937:date=May 19 2010, 07:47 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 19 2010, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Holy fucking shit, I can't believe what I am reading here. I didn't click on this link because I assumed I knew what everyone was going to say, but I finally get around to it this morning and am completely stunned by what I'm reading. It is utterly inconceivable to me that you guys can watch that play, and conclude the MANAGER is the one at fault. Ramirez fucking DOGGED it completely. The fact that the runs might have scored anyway is entirely beside the point. Not only did he dog it, but he was a complete fuckstick when asked about it. I don't care how fucking good a guy is, you DON'T disrespect the manger. And I don't care how fucking good a guy is, the manager HAS to take him out after a play like that. Otherwise he has no credibility.
Ramirez either didn't care, or was too hurt to play. Either way, he had to come out.
For the love of Christ, if Soriano had pulled this shit, you guys would be asking for him to be released. You'd all be blowing Lou for having the balls to call him on it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Life is so much better when I agree with you completely.
And one more thing about Bobby Cox....he pulled Andruw Jones off the field in the middle of an inning and then berated him on the bench in front of the cameras and the world. I have no doubt that that came up with the media after the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what I was referring to, but Cox never turned the moment into a reality TV scandal like Gonzalez did. This is all about covering his ass. There are ways to handle things, and this wasn't the best way to do so. Again, Gonzalez will pay the most for this over his career, not Ramirez.
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He pulled Jones off the field in the middle of an inning. That's reality show scandal in a nut shell. If he wanted to, he could have waited for the inning to end and then bench him. What Cox did was way beyond what Gonzalez did.....and they were both right.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=97014:date=May 19 2010, 01:42 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ May 19 2010, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96945:date=May 19 2010, 09:25 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 19 2010, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96941:date=May 19 2010, 08:19 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ May 19 2010, 08:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=96937:date=May 19 2010, 07:47 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 19 2010, 07:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Holy fucking shit, I can't believe what I am reading here. I didn't click on this link because I assumed I knew what everyone was going to say, but I finally get around to it this morning and am completely stunned by what I'm reading. It is utterly inconceivable to me that you guys can watch that play, and conclude the MANAGER is the one at fault. Ramirez fucking DOGGED it completely. The fact that the runs might have scored anyway is entirely beside the point. Not only did he dog it, but he was a complete fuckstick when asked about it. I don't care how fucking good a guy is, you DON'T disrespect the manger. And I don't care how fucking good a guy is, the manager HAS to take him out after a play like that. Otherwise he has no credibility.
Ramirez either didn't care, or was too hurt to play. Either way, he had to come out.
For the love of Christ, if Soriano had pulled this shit, you guys would be asking for him to be released. You'd all be blowing Lou for having the balls to call him on it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Life is so much better when I agree with you completely.
And one more thing about Bobby Cox....he pulled Andruw Jones off the field in the middle of an inning and then berated him on the bench in front of the cameras and the world. I have no doubt that that came up with the media after the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what I was referring to, but Cox never turned the moment into a reality TV scandal like Gonzalez did. This is all about covering his ass. There are ways to handle things, and this wasn't the best way to do so. Again, Gonzalez will pay the most for this over his career, not Ramirez.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cox stopped the game to pull out Jones.
Gonzalez waited until the inning was over, had a discussion in the dugout, then removed him.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What Coach said.
Wang.
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