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BTW, you were right about Archer.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=105193:date=Jul 12 2010, 11:24 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 12 2010, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105191:date=Jul 12 2010, 10:55 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 12 2010, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105188:date=Jul 12 2010, 10:31 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 12 2010, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105180:date=Jul 12 2010, 09:31 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 12 2010, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105028:date=Jul 11 2010, 09:12 PM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Jul 11 2010, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105019:date=Jul 11 2010, 09:15 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 11 2010, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Expanding on that a little bit...
Players that Soto is currently out OPS-ing: Prince Fielder, Matt Holliday, Hanley Ramirez, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Ryan Braun.
Qualifying NL players that have a higher OBP than Soto: Joey Votto. Albert Pujols went into today tied with him. That is it.
Yet he sits two days at a time for Koyie Hill, a guy with a .534 OPS. And when he plays he bats 7th or 8th, in our shitty lineup. Lou needs to go, yesterday.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not that it would make any difference--the Cubs would still lose, but that's a great point. Can anyone justify that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I think I can. Turns out Lou was paying attention to the stats.
Early in the season, in April, Lou played Hill with some regularity. Soto wasn't very good last year, and Lou played matchups. As of April 24th, when Soto's OPS hit .979, and it was clear he was hitting again, Lou started playing Soto every day. Between April 24 and May 31st, Soto missed exactly THREE games. That's an enormous amount of games for a catcher to play. Unfortunately, while Lou continued to play the guy who you guys say is a no brainer, Soto actually sucked a lot of cock. His OPS for the month of May was .662. He slugged .329. So guess what? Lou didn't play him every day any more. He started to platoon him. And guess what? Soto started to hit again. So Lou put him back in the order. For the next month, starting June 16th and leading up to the all star break, Soto sat out a total of 4 games.
So Lou played him when he was hitting, sat him when he wasn't, and all of you have decided this is clearly evidence that Lou needs to be fired.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BT, I know I can't win an argument with you, even if you're wrong, but, Soto "sucking cock" to the tune of a .662 OPS in June is still better than Hill's .633 OPS in June, when he was basically splitting time equally with Soto, Hill's career .581 OPS, and Hill's season OPS of .534.
And I'm sure I'll get the "lineup construction doesn't matter much" argument back on this one, but would you bat a guy with a .412 OBP 8th regularly when your team can't score any runs?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brock, you are completely avoiding my argument. You can win an argument with me if you actually have facts and logic on your side. For everyone arguing that Soto isn't playing enough, the facts don't bear that out. Soto is on pace to play in 80 percent of our games this year. Does that seem unusually low for a catcher, especially for a catcher who will play more day games than virtually any other catcher in the major leagues? No, because it's not. And Lou picked the time when Soto was playing his worst to rest him and play Hill. And it worked, as Soto got better. Yes, Hill sucks. Yes his best days are comparable with Soto's worst. But Soto can't fucking catch 162 games. You guys act as if Lou is splitting time 50/50 between Soto and Hill, and he isn't.
And no, I wouldn't bat him 8th, and if that had been everyone's argument, I wouldn't have bothered responding, other than to note that considering lineup construction a fire able offense seems pretty silly to me. Should he be batting 8th? No. Should Lou be fired for batting him 8th? Of course not.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think anyone has ever in the history of SOI won an argument with you.
And I don't really care that much to look it up right now, but I have an inkling that Soto "playing in 80% of the games" includes a significant number of games where: 1) Hill started the game and/or 2. Soto was used as a pinch hitter and/or late inning replacement.
I will throw one more thing out at you: Soto is 15th in MLB among catchers in total plate appearances. For me, if I have a guy that is out-hitting every single catcher in baseball other than Miguel Olivo, I'd like to see him get as many at bats as physically possible, especially when my backup catcher is one of the worst hitters in baseball.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, I'm tempted to say Brock won the argument right here. Soto is 15th among catchers in plate appearances. That should seal it. And I also agree that Soto has pinch hit a lot for Hill because Hill has started a lot of games. The 80% thing isn't telling the whole story.
To me, Brock just won this argument......but I know bt is gonna come back with something that will have me questioning my own beliefs. I know it.
And then when it's over, he'll say Lou should be fired anyway.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=105202:date=Jul 13 2010, 02:15 AM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Jul 13 2010, 02:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105191:date=Jul 12 2010, 10:55 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 12 2010, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105188:date=Jul 12 2010, 10:31 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 12 2010, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105180:date=Jul 12 2010, 09:31 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 12 2010, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105028:date=Jul 11 2010, 09:12 PM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Jul 11 2010, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105019:date=Jul 11 2010, 09:15 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 11 2010, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Expanding on that a little bit...
Players that Soto is currently out OPS-ing: Prince Fielder, Matt Holliday, Hanley Ramirez, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Ryan Braun.
Qualifying NL players that have a higher OBP than Soto: Joey Votto. Albert Pujols went into today tied with him. That is it.
Yet he sits two days at a time for Koyie Hill, a guy with a .534 OPS. And when he plays he bats 7th or 8th, in our shitty lineup. Lou needs to go, yesterday.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not that it would make any difference--the Cubs would still lose, but that's a great point. Can anyone justify that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I think I can. Turns out Lou was paying attention to the stats.
Early in the season, in April, Lou played Hill with some regularity. Soto wasn't very good last year, and Lou played matchups. As of April 24th, when Soto's OPS hit .979, and it was clear he was hitting again, Lou started playing Soto every day. Between April 24 and May 31st, Soto missed exactly THREE games. That's an enormous amount of games for a catcher to play. Unfortunately, while Lou continued to play the guy who you guys say is a no brainer, Soto actually sucked a lot of cock. His OPS for the month of May was .662. He slugged .329. So guess what? Lou didn't play him every day any more. He started to platoon him. And guess what? Soto started to hit again. So Lou put him back in the order. For the next month, starting June 16th and leading up to the all star break, Soto sat out a total of 4 games.
So Lou played him when he was hitting, sat him when he wasn't, and all of you have decided this is clearly evidence that Lou needs to be fired.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BT, I know I can't win an argument with you, even if you're wrong, but, Soto "sucking cock" to the tune of a .662 OPS in June is still better than Hill's .633 OPS in June, when he was basically splitting time equally with Soto, Hill's career .581 OPS, and Hill's season OPS of .534.
And I'm sure I'll get the "lineup construction doesn't matter much" argument back on this one, but would you bat a guy with a .412 OBP 8th regularly when your team can't score any runs?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brock, you are completely avoiding my argument. You can win an argument with me if you actually have facts and logic on your side. For everyone arguing that Soto isn't playing enough, the facts don't bear that out. Soto is on pace to play in 80 percent of our games this year. Does that seem unusually low for a catcher, especially for a catcher who will play more day games than virtually any other catcher in the major leagues? No, because it's not. And Lou picked the time when Soto was playing his worst to rest him and play Hill. And it worked, as Soto got better. Yes, Hill sucks. Yes his best days are comparable with Soto's worst. But Soto can't fucking catch 162 games. You guys act as if Lou is splitting time 50/50 between Soto and Hill, and he isn't.
And no, I wouldn't bat him 8th, and if that had been everyone's argument, I wouldn't have bothered responding, other than to note that considering lineup construction a fire able offense seems pretty silly to me. Should he be batting 8th? No. Should Lou be fired for batting him 8th? Of course not.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one wins with you because you almost always resort to logical fallacies. You also skirt points that are plausible cases against your own and attack trivial syntax issues or internal sentence logic issues when the main point is pretty clear. Or you argue ad absurdom or ad nauseum until the person just tires. You also love boy parts and eat brussel sprouts.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brussel sprouts are underrated. Try roasting them. Here's what you do. Get out your mandoline and slice an entire lemon, seeds, skins and all...paper thin. Then take some really good quality, thick cut bacon, about a 1/4 pound and dice it. Now take a pound of brussel sprouts and halve them, lengthwise. But all this on a cookie sheet and toss it all together and salt and pepper with fresh ground pepper and sea salt. Roast it on the top rack of a 350 degree oven, using tongs to turn everything a couple of times till the sprouts are browned nicely.
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Yeah, just get out your mandoline, because everyone has one of those around. Hell, Rod Stewart wrote a song about one.
Wang.
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I have a mandolin and it is great at cutting my spuds super thing so I can make home made chips.
I picture a pissed-off Amazon bitch; uncontrollable, disobedient, boldly resisting any kind of emotional shackles...angrily begging for more ejaculate. -KB
Showing your teeth is a sign of weakness in primates. Whenever someone smiles at me, all I see is a chimpanzee begging for its life. - Dwight
RIP Sarge
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<!--quoteo(post=105211:date=Jul 13 2010, 06:50 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jul 13 2010, 06:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105202:date=Jul 13 2010, 02:15 AM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Jul 13 2010, 02:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105191:date=Jul 12 2010, 10:55 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 12 2010, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105188:date=Jul 12 2010, 10:31 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 12 2010, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105180:date=Jul 12 2010, 09:31 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 12 2010, 09:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105028:date=Jul 11 2010, 09:12 PM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Jul 11 2010, 09:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105019:date=Jul 11 2010, 09:15 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 11 2010, 09:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Expanding on that a little bit...
Players that Soto is currently out OPS-ing: Prince Fielder, Matt Holliday, Hanley Ramirez, Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Ryan Braun.
Qualifying NL players that have a higher OBP than Soto: Joey Votto. Albert Pujols went into today tied with him. That is it.
Yet he sits two days at a time for Koyie Hill, a guy with a .534 OPS. And when he plays he bats 7th or 8th, in our shitty lineup. Lou needs to go, yesterday.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not that it would make any difference--the Cubs would still lose, but that's a great point. Can anyone justify that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I think I can. Turns out Lou was paying attention to the stats.
Early in the season, in April, Lou played Hill with some regularity. Soto wasn't very good last year, and Lou played matchups. As of April 24th, when Soto's OPS hit .979, and it was clear he was hitting again, Lou started playing Soto every day. Between April 24 and May 31st, Soto missed exactly THREE games. That's an enormous amount of games for a catcher to play. Unfortunately, while Lou continued to play the guy who you guys say is a no brainer, Soto actually sucked a lot of cock. His OPS for the month of May was .662. He slugged .329. So guess what? Lou didn't play him every day any more. He started to platoon him. And guess what? Soto started to hit again. So Lou put him back in the order. For the next month, starting June 16th and leading up to the all star break, Soto sat out a total of 4 games.
So Lou played him when he was hitting, sat him when he wasn't, and all of you have decided this is clearly evidence that Lou needs to be fired.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BT, I know I can't win an argument with you, even if you're wrong, but, Soto "sucking cock" to the tune of a .662 OPS in June is still better than Hill's .633 OPS in June, when he was basically splitting time equally with Soto, Hill's career .581 OPS, and Hill's season OPS of .534.
And I'm sure I'll get the "lineup construction doesn't matter much" argument back on this one, but would you bat a guy with a .412 OBP 8th regularly when your team can't score any runs?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brock, you are completely avoiding my argument. You can win an argument with me if you actually have facts and logic on your side. For everyone arguing that Soto isn't playing enough, the facts don't bear that out. Soto is on pace to play in 80 percent of our games this year. Does that seem unusually low for a catcher, especially for a catcher who will play more day games than virtually any other catcher in the major leagues? No, because it's not. And Lou picked the time when Soto was playing his worst to rest him and play Hill. And it worked, as Soto got better. Yes, Hill sucks. Yes his best days are comparable with Soto's worst. But Soto can't fucking catch 162 games. You guys act as if Lou is splitting time 50/50 between Soto and Hill, and he isn't.
And no, I wouldn't bat him 8th, and if that had been everyone's argument, I wouldn't have bothered responding, other than to note that considering lineup construction a fire able offense seems pretty silly to me. Should he be batting 8th? No. Should Lou be fired for batting him 8th? Of course not.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No one wins with you because you almost always resort to logical fallacies. You also skirt points that are plausible cases against your own and attack trivial syntax issues or internal sentence logic issues when the main point is pretty clear. Or you argue ad absurdom or ad nauseum until the person just tires. You also love boy parts and eat brussel sprouts.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Brussel sprouts are underrated. Try roasting them. Here's what you do. Get out your mandoline and slice an entire lemon, seeds, skins and all...paper thin. Then take some really good quality, thick cut bacon, about a 1/4 pound and dice it. Now take a pound of brussel sprouts and halve them, lengthwise. But all this on a cookie sheet and toss it all together and salt and pepper with fresh ground pepper and sea salt. Roast it on the top rack of a 350 degree oven, using tongs to turn everything a couple of times till the sprouts are browned nicely.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fire Lou?
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<!--quoteo(post=105208:date=Jul 13 2010, 06:30 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jul 13 2010, 06:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->And then when it's over, he'll say Lou should be fired anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand why this upsets you so much. Why, if you believe the Cubs should get a new manager, do you have to 100% dump on the current one for every single thing he does?
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<!--quoteo(post=105217:date=Jul 13 2010, 07:29 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jul 13 2010, 07:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, just get out your mandoline, because everyone has one of those around. Hell, Rod Stewart wrote a song about one.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or in Tommy's case, get out your violin.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I don't think anyone has ever in the history of SOI won an argument with you.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, I'm getting pretty tired of people treating the fact that I actually back my arguments up with facts, and stick to my guns, as some sort of character flaw. News flash. that is what you are supposed to do on a message board. If you've got a counter argument, make it. Simply saying "no one has ever won an argument with you" is a fucking cop out, as it is utterly meaningless.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And I don't really care that much to look it up right now, but I have an inkling that Soto "playing in 80% of the games" includes a significant number of games where: 1) Hill started the game and/or 2. Soto was used as a pinch hitter and/or late inning replacement<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll save you the 12 seconds it took me to look this up. There were a grand total of 6 games in which Soto batted one or fewer times.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I will throw one more thing out at you: Soto is 15th in MLB among catchers in total plate appearances. For me, if I have a guy that is out-hitting every single catcher in baseball other than Miguel Olivo, I'd like to see him get as many at bats as physically possible, especially when my backup catcher is one of the worst hitters in baseball.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's fine. I've already explained that most of Soto's missed time was at the beginning of the season, when Soto was coming off a particularly bad year, and during the middle of the season when he was slumping badly. Every other part of the year, while he was batting well, his time off was fairly routine for a catcher. Let's see what his numbers end up being at the end of the year.
In the meantime you can continue to argue points that I haven't made, if you like. Lance specifically asked if anyone could justify Soto not playing. I did that. You countered by arguing that he is batting in the wrong spot, that Theriot is batting too much, in the wrong spot, and generally acting as if I'm arguing Lou shouldn't be fired. I'm arguing that people who are calling for Lou's head because of his use of Soto aren't actually looking at the facts.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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Don't sweat it, BT -- I won't tell you that you've never lost an SOI argument. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
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I'm not as high on Joe these days as I was a few years ago, but I'd welcome him for sure. That said, he'd be a fool to leave NY.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cu...gordo13.article
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<!--quoteo(post=105253:date=Jul 13 2010, 11:25 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jul 13 2010, 11:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm not as high on Joe these days as I was a few years ago, but I'd welcome him for sure. That said, he'd be a fool to leave NY.
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cu...gordo13.article<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno if he'd be a fool. He's got money, he probably likes new challenges. This job would pay well. He may be sick of babysitting superstar prima donnas. The job might be all kinds of attractive to him.
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<!--quoteo(post=105244:date=Jul 13 2010, 10:22 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 13 2010, 10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Don't sweat it, BT -- I won't tell you that you've never lost an SOI argument. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When did that become a BAD thing?
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=105227:date=Jul 13 2010, 08:40 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jul 13 2010, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=105208:date=Jul 13 2010, 06:30 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jul 13 2010, 06:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->And then when it's over, he'll say Lou should be fired anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand why this upsets you so much. Why, if you believe the Cubs should get a new manager, do you have to 100% dump on the current one for every single thing he does?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why, if you believe the Cubs should get a new manager, do you have to 100% defend the current one every single time someone else dumps on him?
Wang.
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Okay bt, I'm gonna ask you a question. This isn't an argument, because I can't win an argument with you.
If Soto was getting benched because he was slumping, despite the fact that he was still taking walks on a regular basis, how did it benefit the Cubs to have Hill getting regular playing time?
Isn't a slumping Soto that still gets on base better than Hill every time?
I will wait for you to convince me it is wrong. And you will.
Wang.
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