Zambrano

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=115967:date=Oct 3 2010, 04:40 PM:name=funkster)-->QUOTE (funkster @ Oct 3 2010, 04:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Hendry says Z is staying.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...ook_id=15381114<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What does Z say about Hendry staying?

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=115962:date=Oct 3 2010, 04:10 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115961:date=Oct 3 2010, 05:08 PM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 3 2010, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs had no pressure in any of these games. Hats off to Z for pitching well against some good teams.

I'm still waiting for him to look this good when the Cubs need it most.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Like in the playoffs?


(I guess that was a few years ago, though)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or like, either you turn your season around, battle your inner demons, deal with your angry teammates, organization and fans/media immediately or your career is over? Yeah, absolutely no pressure whatsoever. None that I can think of.

[Coach]

<!--quoteo(post=115983:date=Oct 3 2010, 07:59 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 3 2010, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115962:date=Oct 3 2010, 04:10 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115961:date=Oct 3 2010, 05:08 PM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Oct 3 2010, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs had no pressure in any of these games. Hats off to Z for pitching well against some good teams.

I'm still waiting for him to look this good when the Cubs need it most.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Like in the playoffs?


(I guess that was a few years ago, though)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or like, either you turn your season around, battle your inner demons, deal with your angry teammates, organization and fans/media immediately or your career is over? Yeah, absolutely no pressure whatsoever. None that I can think of.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We'll see next year,

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=115943:date=Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115939:date=Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115937:date=Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115933:date=Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115928:date=Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Zambrano finishes the season with a 3.33 ERA. His lowest since 2005. Who saw that coming?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's truly incredible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Truly incredible? Really? I'm not saying I would have predicted this, but I'm not surprised by it either.

Zambrano is a good pitcher. Always has been.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Given where he was mid-season, I say again: it's truly incredible. How can anyone disagree with that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As I've said numerous times, had Zambrano been given the chance to work through his early season problems, there's no doubt in my mind that his mid-saeson troubles would not have existed. Though I'm a tad surprised, I don't think it's "truly incredible" in any way, shape or form.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I have to admit I was wrong. I honestly thought it would take at least a few months before the idea that taking Zambrano out of the rotation CAUSED his problems would take hold.

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=115967:date=Oct 3 2010, 05:40 PM:name=funkster)-->QUOTE (funkster @ Oct 3 2010, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Hendry says Z is staying.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...ook_id=15381114<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he probably will be back, but this isn't one of those times where Hendry has his hand forced into acknowledging that he'd be looking to shop a guy (like Bradley). I think it's 2:1 that he's back. If they get a trade offer that would lead to somebody what's left on that contract (without having to eat a Silva-esque contract in return) and Zambrano approves, I think they'd still move him. I don't know if his last few months made that a possibility though.

[rok]

I can't imagine we'd get anywhere near a good return on Z at this point, even after his resurgence. Unless we go into full-on contract dump mode, which neither Ricketts nor Hendry is implying will be the case, and plan to replace Z with 1 or 2 solid SPs in the process, the best bet is to hold onto him at this point. What would be the point of selling low on Z?

[dk123]

Hasn't Z been pretty solid in the playoffs?

[Giff]

<!--quoteo(post=115999:date=Oct 3 2010, 08:42 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 3 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115967:date=Oct 3 2010, 05:40 PM:name=funkster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (funkster @ Oct 3 2010, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Hendry says Z is staying.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...ook_id=15381114<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he probably will be back, but this isn't one of those times where Hendry has his hand forced into acknowledging that he'd be looking to shop a guy (like Bradley). I think it's 2:1 that he's back. If they get a trade offer that would lead to somebody what's left on that contract (without having to eat a Silva-esque contract in return) and Zambrano approves, I think they'd still move him. I don't know if his last few months made that a possibility though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But Z said a couple days ago he isn't accepting a trade until the Cubs win the World Series. I don't see anyway he isn't back.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=115986:date=Oct 3 2010, 08:17 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Oct 3 2010, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115943:date=Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115939:date=Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115937:date=Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115933:date=Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115928:date=Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Zambrano finishes the season with a 3.33 ERA. His lowest since 2005. Who saw that coming?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's truly incredible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Truly incredible? Really? I'm not saying I would have predicted this, but I'm not surprised by it either.

Zambrano is a good pitcher. Always has been.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Given where he was mid-season, I say again: it's truly incredible. How can anyone disagree with that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As I've said numerous times, had Zambrano been given the chance to work through his early season problems, there's no doubt in my mind that his mid-saeson troubles would not have existed. Though I'm a tad surprised, I don't think it's "truly incredible" in any way, shape or form.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I have to admit I was wrong. I honestly thought it would take at least a few months before the idea that taking Zambrano out of the rotation CAUSED his problems would take hold.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Putting him in the pen was idiotic and it did contribute the meltdown. You really think it played no role in the run up to his suspension? As far as I'm concerned it's one of the most egregious elements of the last stages of Lou Piniella's utter disintegration as a manager. That Hendry let it happen makes him responsible too. That Hendry will still be GM blows my mind. The Rickett's skepticism has set in hard. I think he thinks he can manage the business around the edges. I think he's too in awe of "baseball people" and won't step in to be an activist owner. This franchise needs an activist owner.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=116019:date=Oct 4 2010, 06:59 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Oct 4 2010, 06:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115986:date=Oct 3 2010, 08:17 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Oct 3 2010, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115943:date=Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115939:date=Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115937:date=Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115933:date=Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115928:date=Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Zambrano finishes the season with a 3.33 ERA. His lowest since 2005. Who saw that coming?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's truly incredible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Truly incredible? Really? I'm not saying I would have predicted this, but I'm not surprised by it either.

Zambrano is a good pitcher. Always has been.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Given where he was mid-season, I say again: it's truly incredible. How can anyone disagree with that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As I've said numerous times, had Zambrano been given the chance to work through his early season problems, there's no doubt in my mind that his mid-saeson troubles would not have existed. Though I'm a tad surprised, I don't think it's "truly incredible" in any way, shape or form.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I have to admit I was wrong. I honestly thought it would take at least a few months before the idea that taking Zambrano out of the rotation CAUSED his problems would take hold.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Putting him in the pen was idiotic and it did contribute the meltdown. You really think it played no role in the run up to his suspension? As far as I'm concerned it's one of the most egregious elements of the last stages of Lou Piniella's utter disintegration as a manager. That Hendry let it happen makes him responsible too. That Hendry will still be GM blows my mind. The Rickett's skepticism has set in hard. I think he thinks he can manage the business around the edges. I think he's too in awe of "baseball people" and won't step in to be an activist owner. This franchise needs an activist owner.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


BAM! There it is.

And again, I'm not saying the demotion CAUSED his problems. I'm saying the demotion exacerbated his current problems. Had he not been demoted, it's safe to assume that he would've righted the ship and had a productive year, <i>because that's what he's always done.</i>


Putting him in the bullpen was similar to lighting a fuse of a bomb. It had zero chance of working.

And I'm glad he's coming back too, because he's the only player on this team with any life. Plus, he's good. Always has been.

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=116018:date=Oct 4 2010, 07:35 AM:name=Giff)-->QUOTE (Giff @ Oct 4 2010, 07:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115999:date=Oct 3 2010, 08:42 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 3 2010, 08:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115967:date=Oct 3 2010, 05:40 PM:name=funkster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (funkster @ Oct 3 2010, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Hendry says Z is staying.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...ook_id=15381114<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he probably will be back, but this isn't one of those times where Hendry has his hand forced into acknowledging that he'd be looking to shop a guy (like Bradley). I think it's 2:1 that he's back. If they get a trade offer that would lead to somebody what's left on that contract (without having to eat a Silva-esque contract in return) and Zambrano approves, I think they'd still move him. I don't know if his last few months made that a possibility though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But Z said a couple days ago he isn't accepting a trade until the Cubs win the World Series. I don't see anyway he isn't back.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And he said when he came back that he would accept a trade. I rarely put stock into what anybody says about a potential trade.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=116022:date=Oct 4 2010, 07:06 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 4 2010, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=116019:date=Oct 4 2010, 06:59 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Oct 4 2010, 06:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115986:date=Oct 3 2010, 08:17 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Oct 3 2010, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115943:date=Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115939:date=Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115937:date=Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115933:date=Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115928:date=Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Zambrano finishes the season with a 3.33 ERA. His lowest since 2005. Who saw that coming?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's truly incredible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Truly incredible? Really? I'm not saying I would have predicted this, but I'm not surprised by it either.

Zambrano is a good pitcher. Always has been.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Given where he was mid-season, I say again: it's truly incredible. How can anyone disagree with that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As I've said numerous times, had Zambrano been given the chance to work through his early season problems, there's no doubt in my mind that his mid-saeson troubles would not have existed. Though I'm a tad surprised, I don't think it's "truly incredible" in any way, shape or form.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I have to admit I was wrong. I honestly thought it would take at least a few months before the idea that taking Zambrano out of the rotation CAUSED his problems would take hold.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Putting him in the pen was idiotic and it did contribute the meltdown. You really think it played no role in the run up to his suspension? As far as I'm concerned it's one of the most egregious elements of the last stages of Lou Piniella's utter disintegration as a manager. That Hendry let it happen makes him responsible too. That Hendry will still be GM blows my mind. The Rickett's skepticism has set in hard. I think he thinks he can manage the business around the edges. I think he's too in awe of "baseball people" and won't step in to be an activist owner. This franchise needs an activist owner.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


BAM! There it is.

And again, I'm not saying the demotion CAUSED his problems. I'm saying the demotion exacerbated his current problems. Had he not been demoted, it's safe to assume that he would've righted the ship and had a productive year, <i>because that's what he's always done.</i>


Putting him in the bullpen was similar to lighting a fuse of a bomb. It had zero chance of working.

And I'm glad he's coming back too, because he's the only player on this team with any life. Plus, he's good. Always has been.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



These are the facts.

Before the move to the bullpen he was bad. After the move to the bullpen, he was bad. After the suspension he ranged from shakily effective to the best sustained pitching performance he's given in his life, I would assume.

He had a 5.66 ERA before the suspension, and a 1.58 ERA after the suspension.

IF the suspension had any affect on Zambrano, it was positive. You guys continually fucking bitch and moan about the suspension/move to the bullpen as if it were a catastrophe on the level of the Great Chicago Fire. WHY? ONLY GOOD THINGS HAPPENED after the suspension.

Here is my problem (as it always is with fans). If Zambrano had come back from the suspension and sucked cock, it surely would have been the fault of Hendry and Lou. If Zambrano had come back from the suspension and played lights out, it would have been the "fault" of Zambrano. There was literally no scenario in which you guys would have admitted the idea had merit. Every possible outcome would still lead you guys to act as if Lou/Hendry had murdered the Lindbergh baby.

Somehow you guys have taken a step further. Not only is Zambrano's great play all due only to Zambrano and his inherent talent, but somehow it's STILL Lou and Hendry's "fault", even though there is no fucking downside. NONE. Zambrano is probably more tradeable now than he was before the season started. You manage to give all the credit to the player, and then invent blame and give it to management.

There are only 2 possible conclusions here. Either the moves had NO effect on Zambrano or they had some effect on Zambrano. If there was no effect, then further discussion is unnecessary. If it had some effect on Zambrano, then the effect was that he became the best version of Zambrano we have seen in years. If that is the case, why do you keep bitching?

[rok]

I'm not even bitching about the handling of Z any longer. It's just very satisfying watching him be successful, which he has been for 99% of his career. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

[Butcher]

I've stated from the beginning that Carlos's stats this season (before and after the move to the bullpen) had/will have no bearing on whether or not moving him to the pen was a bad decision. It was a bad decision, regardless. A pitcher with Zambrano's career stats should be allowed the breathing room to sort out whatever struggles he was having at the time of the decision.

I'm not going to re-hash my entire position because I'm sure everyone is sick of it by now. However, I'll just say that the fact that Zambrano finished the season with better numbers than Silva, Gorz, and Wells really shouldn't surprise anyone.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=116034:date=Oct 4 2010, 09:42 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Oct 4 2010, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=116022:date=Oct 4 2010, 07:06 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 4 2010, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=116019:date=Oct 4 2010, 06:59 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Oct 4 2010, 06:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115986:date=Oct 3 2010, 08:17 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Oct 3 2010, 08:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115943:date=Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115939:date=Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115937:date=Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Oct 3 2010, 10:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115933:date=Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Oct 3 2010, 07:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=115928:date=Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 2 2010, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Zambrano finishes the season with a 3.33 ERA. His lowest since 2005. Who saw that coming?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's truly incredible.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Truly incredible? Really? I'm not saying I would have predicted this, but I'm not surprised by it either.

Zambrano is a good pitcher. Always has been.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Given where he was mid-season, I say again: it's truly incredible. How can anyone disagree with that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As I've said numerous times, had Zambrano been given the chance to work through his early season problems, there's no doubt in my mind that his mid-saeson troubles would not have existed. Though I'm a tad surprised, I don't think it's "truly incredible" in any way, shape or form.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I have to admit I was wrong. I honestly thought it would take at least a few months before the idea that taking Zambrano out of the rotation CAUSED his problems would take hold.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Putting him in the pen was idiotic and it did contribute the meltdown. You really think it played no role in the run up to his suspension? As far as I'm concerned it's one of the most egregious elements of the last stages of Lou Piniella's utter disintegration as a manager. That Hendry let it happen makes him responsible too. That Hendry will still be GM blows my mind. The Rickett's skepticism has set in hard. I think he thinks he can manage the business around the edges. I think he's too in awe of "baseball people" and won't step in to be an activist owner. This franchise needs an activist owner.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


BAM! There it is.

And again, I'm not saying the demotion CAUSED his problems. I'm saying the demotion exacerbated his current problems. Had he not been demoted, it's safe to assume that he would've righted the ship and had a productive year, <i>because that's what he's always done.</i>


Putting him in the bullpen was similar to lighting a fuse of a bomb. It had zero chance of working.

And I'm glad he's coming back too, because he's the only player on this team with any life. Plus, he's good. Always has been.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->



These are the facts.

Before the move to the bullpen he was bad. After the move to the bullpen, he was bad. After the suspension he ranged from shakily effective to the best sustained pitching performance he's given in his life, I would assume.

He had a 5.66 ERA before the suspension, and a 1.58 ERA after the suspension.

IF the suspension had any affect on Zambrano, it was positive. You guys continually fucking bitch and moan about the suspension/move to the bullpen as if it were a catastrophe on the level of the Great Chicago Fire. WHY? ONLY GOOD THINGS HAPPENED after the suspension.

Here is my problem (as it always is with fans). If Zambrano had come back from the suspension and sucked cock, it surely would have been the fault of Hendry and Lou. If Zambrano had come back from the suspension and played lights out, it would have been the "fault" of Zambrano. There was literally no scenario in which you guys would have admitted the idea had merit. Every possible outcome would still lead you guys to act as if Lou/Hendry had murdered the Lindbergh baby.

Somehow you guys have taken a step further. Not only is Zambrano's great play all due only to Zambrano and his inherent talent, but somehow it's STILL Lou and Hendry's "fault", even though there is no fucking downside. NONE. Zambrano is probably more tradeable now than he was before the season started. You manage to give all the credit to the player, and then invent blame and give it to management.

There are only 2 possible conclusions here. Either the moves had NO effect on Zambrano or they had some effect on Zambrano. If there was no effect, then further discussion is unnecessary. If it had some effect on Zambrano, then the effect was that he became the best version of Zambrano we have seen in years. If that is the case, why do you keep bitching?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're conflating the effect of the suspension with the effect of the demotion. No demotion...no suspension.