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<!--quoteo(post=108381:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:51 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jul 28 2010, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm with Butch on this. If you look at his history, you have to look at everybody's history. You can't deduce SHIT from a couple of starts. Hell, Silva might be back to Cy Young form...and his two really shitty outings might have been the anomaly. We just don't know. I'm way more sympathetic to the idea that Z might have been a cure for our 8th inning woes than that he was the worst pitcher in the rotation. In any case it was a stupid idea. I thought and said so then and I think and say so now.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingage! Straw's right. Butcher's right........and there weren't any histrionics and no one thought it was some plot. It was a dumb move. Period.
Wang.
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I'm still willing to give him more time, and these are only minor league games at this point, so whatever. Besides, I've pretty much written off 2010 as far as Z is concerned, so it's hard to expect much from him given all that has happened in such a short amount of time.
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<!--quoteo(post=108407:date=Jul 28 2010, 10:58 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jul 28 2010, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm still willing to give him more time, and these are only minor league games at this point, so whatever. Besides, I've pretty much written off 2010 as far as Z is concerned, so it's hard to expect much from him given all that has happened in such a short amount of time.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you about writing 2010 off. But I think Z and The Cubs are out of time. It was fun while it lasted and we as fans all fed into the madness that was, but with this team going the direction of youth (not my words, Ricketts' words) the last thing they need is this volcano around players you are trying to develop.
I am not in Ricketts or Hendry's head, but I can almost promise you if there is a market for him out there, even eating some of the $$, he is gone. And I for one am perfectly fine with that.
Dylan McKay is my hero
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<!--quoteo(post=108406:date=Jul 28 2010, 10:57 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jul 28 2010, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=108381:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:51 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jul 28 2010, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm with Butch on this. If you look at his history, you have to look at everybody's history. You can't deduce SHIT from a couple of starts. Hell, Silva might be back to Cy Young form...and his two really shitty outings might have been the anomaly. We just don't know. I'm way more sympathetic to the idea that Z might have been a cure for our 8th inning woes than that he was the worst pitcher in the rotation. In any case it was a stupid idea. I thought and said so then and I think and say so now.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingage! Straw's right. Butcher's right........and there weren't any histrionics and no one thought it was some plot. It was a dumb move. Period.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, Straw's the one who's promulgated the idea the this was an orchestrated plot to drive Zambrano to the brink, and he has yet to recant.
..............tick, tick, tick
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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The risk with dumping Z and eating nearly all the salary, and getting very little back in return is that if he does go somewhere and revert anywhere close to form, even if he just ends up a 4.00 ERA, 12ish wins, 200 IP guy, most fans will hold that against management and ownership.
If I ran a MLB club, I'd be on the phone with Hendry today, willing to acquire Carlos if Hendry had the authority to eat most of that deal... He's shown too much good, and is too young, to give up on completely.
That said, I know nothing about how his image/reputation is at this point in the clubhouse. If he's considered a "clubhouse cancer" by the players, that's a different story. Then you have to suck it up and move him.
I'll be very curious to see what happens as we get to the deadline. The Cubs have a lot of potential guys to move depending on what they want in return and on how much they are willing to pay to move people.
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<!--quoteo(post=108388:date=Jul 28 2010, 10:02 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jul 28 2010, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=91724:date=Apr 21 2010, 03:58 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 21 2010, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->definitely not the move I would make, but I'm not sure it calls for a full scale flip out either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BT, this is what you said back then. What move would you have made?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would have taken Gorzellany out of the rotation. The drawback to that is it would have done nothing whatsoever to solve our biggest problem at the time, which was find an 8th inning pitcher. And it would have put too many lefties in our bullpen.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=108411:date=Jul 28 2010, 11:27 AM:name=Bricklayer)-->QUOTE (Bricklayer @ Jul 28 2010, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=108406:date=Jul 28 2010, 10:57 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jul 28 2010, 10:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=108381:date=Jul 28 2010, 09:51 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jul 28 2010, 09:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm with Butch on this. If you look at his history, you have to look at everybody's history. You can't deduce SHIT from a couple of starts. Hell, Silva might be back to Cy Young form...and his two really shitty outings might have been the anomaly. We just don't know. I'm way more sympathetic to the idea that Z might have been a cure for our 8th inning woes than that he was the worst pitcher in the rotation. In any case it was a stupid idea. I thought and said so then and I think and say so now.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingage! Straw's right. Butcher's right........and there weren't any histrionics and no one thought it was some plot. It was a dumb move. Period.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Once again, Straw's the one who's promulgated the idea the this was an orchestrated plot to drive Zambrano to the brink, and he has yet to recant.
..............tick, tick, tick
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're wrong.
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<!--quoteo(post=108420:date=Jul 28 2010, 12:01 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jul 28 2010, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=108388:date=Jul 28 2010, 10:02 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jul 28 2010, 10:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=91724:date=Apr 21 2010, 03:58 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 21 2010, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->definitely not the move I would make, but I'm not sure it calls for a full scale flip out either.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BT, this is what you said back then. What move would you have made?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would have taken Gorzellany out of the rotation. The drawback to that is it would have done nothing whatsoever to solve our biggest problem at the time, which was find an 8th inning pitcher. And it would have put too many lefties in our bullpen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I would have done too but not too sure about the handedness issue. I'm trying to remember why it took so long to get Marshall into the role he's now excelling in, left hand and all...
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Wasn't Marshall starting in the Spring? Maybe they simply pictured hiim as a long relief/spot starter not knowing about injuries and so forth, but then realized his stuff was gold when he kept going out and balling everyday. It take awhile no doubt, and probably could have avoided all this mess if Lou just would have put him in that role from the jump.
Speaking of, is Caridad still alive?
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From Miles:
http://blogs.dailyherald.com/node/4440
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Stayed up late last night to blog on Carlos Zambrano’s outing in Albuquerque for Class AAA Iowa as he finishes his rehab stint. Zambrano pitched 1 inning, giving up 3 hits and 3 runs while walking one, striking out one and hitting one. He’s scheduled to rejoin the team this weekend in Colorado after more than a month away, undergoing anger-management training and rehabbing with Iowa.
My colleagues in Houston talked to Lou about Big Z today. Lou said this to the crew:
"The reports were that he threw the ball better than the results. He hit a batter, walked a batter, (Iowa) should've turned a double-play ball, and (there were) a couple bloop singles. The reports were that he threw the ball better than the outcome and that's really what we're concerned about more than anything else.
"All he's doing is getting some work in here, getting some work in and throwing some pitches. I'm not concerned at all about him being ready. He'll come in and do the absolute best he can. The first thing is to talk to the team and clear that hurdle and we'll go from there.
"I think he'll be fine. I think the sessions that he's had will help him. I look forward to having him back and helping us win some baseball games down the stretch."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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Stats don't always tell the whole story.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=108491:date=Jul 28 2010, 03:17 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jul 28 2010, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Stats don't always tell the whole story.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The way early reports were indicating, you'd think he got shelled or something. But I'm just a Z apologist.
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"The first thing is to talk to the team and clear that hurdle and we'll go from there."
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My fear is that the fans have already turned on him and he's going to get booed at Wrigley. That's going to just fuck up his head even more. I hate to say it, but we might need to just cut our losses before this gets any worse.
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<!--quoteo(post=108500:date=Jul 28 2010, 03:25 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 28 2010, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->My fear is that the fans have already turned on him and he's going to get booed at Wrigley. That's going to just fuck up his head even more. I hate to say it, but we might need to just cut our losses before this gets any worse.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen.
Dylan McKay is my hero
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