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Z is an extremely polarizing a figure.
Most seem to either love him or hate him with very few in between the extremes.
Not certain to what extent the media is to blame for this phenomena but I like the guy so it has to be someone else's fault.
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<!--quoteo(post=107501:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:52 AM:name=1060Ivy)-->QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Jul 23 2010, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Z is an extremely polarizing a figure.
Most seem to either love him or hate him with very few in between the extremes.
Not certain to what extent the media is to blame for this phenomena but I like the guy so it has to be someone else's fault.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like him. I know he's a giant douche though. I know he is partly to blame for his troubles. At the same time, I'm inclined to believe there is a lot more wrong with him physically than we are aware of. It just doesn't add up, and to me anyway, explaining his troubles isn't as simple as just blaming it all on his insanity. You don't lose you stuff all of a sudden at that age unless you are injured in some way. But I guess wanting to better understand the situation as not simply black and white as the organization and media would have us believe, gets you labeled an enabler or excuse maker these days.
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Zambrano allowed 2 hits and escaped allowing a run thanks to a great catch by Fuld. He topped out at 91 mph.
Sure looks to be in middle season form!
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<!--quoteo(post=107510:date=Jul 23 2010, 11:08 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Zambrano allowed 2 hits and escaped allowing a run thanks to a great catch by Fuld. He topped out at 91 mph.
Sure looks to be in middle season form!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're really enjoying this aren't you?
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<!--quoteo(post=107481:date=Jul 23 2010, 11:09 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jul 23 2010, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107476:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:00 AM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jul 23 2010, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107465:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:23 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jul 23 2010, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107460:date=Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Probably because the "ace" of the staff shouldnt be regressing during his peak years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So just give up on the guy altogether after all these years? Do we have that much of a surplus of pitching where we can't allow one guy with an actual track record some time to work his shit out or make sure that he isn't hurting more than he lets on? I'm not defending his behavior at all, but I have a hard time believing that had any of our other SPs been jerked around like he's been the minute their performance suffered, that they'd be happy about it and deal with it professionally. Even Gorzelanny started crying when they moved him in and out of the rotation, and he by all accounts isn't insane.
Again, as much as we complain about him, Z has never had a poor season (and that includes 2009) until now.
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You can say he's never had a poor season, but the reality is that he's gotten progressively worse since signing his last contract. He is not pitching like an ace, and he's getting paid like one. I was at his opening day start this year. He had a call that didn't go his way, and then he mentally shut it down after that. It was embarrassing, and not what you would expect from a "front of the rotation" guy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People love to bring up evidence like this as if it explains anything. That doesn't help anyone figure out what is actually wrong with the guy. If there is a trend, I want to know what (in his arm or shoulder not his head) is causing him to not live up to people's expectations. I know he hasn't been great, but to say that he's been terrible just because he hasn't lived up to what you or anyone else (myself included) expects out of him, doesn't really mean a whole lot when you put things into perspective. Fix him. That's all I care about. If you can't then we need to send him elsewhere.
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What are you a social worker? Don't you think Larry and Lou have tried to "fix" him? I don't care about his problems. I care about his results.
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<!--quoteo(post=107518:date=Jul 23 2010, 12:01 PM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jul 23 2010, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107481:date=Jul 23 2010, 11:09 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jul 23 2010, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107476:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:00 AM:name=vitaminB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jul 23 2010, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107465:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:23 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jul 23 2010, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107460:date=Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Probably because the "ace" of the staff shouldnt be regressing during his peak years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So just give up on the guy altogether after all these years? Do we have that much of a surplus of pitching where we can't allow one guy with an actual track record some time to work his shit out or make sure that he isn't hurting more than he lets on? I'm not defending his behavior at all, but I have a hard time believing that had any of our other SPs been jerked around like he's been the minute their performance suffered, that they'd be happy about it and deal with it professionally. Even Gorzelanny started crying when they moved him in and out of the rotation, and he by all accounts isn't insane.
Again, as much as we complain about him, Z has never had a poor season (and that includes 2009) until now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can say he's never had a poor season, but the reality is that he's gotten progressively worse since signing his last contract. He is not pitching like an ace, and he's getting paid like one. I was at his opening day start this year. He had a call that didn't go his way, and then he mentally shut it down after that. It was embarrassing, and not what you would expect from a "front of the rotation" guy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People love to bring up evidence like this as if it explains anything. That doesn't help anyone figure out what is actually wrong with the guy. If there is a trend, I want to know what (in his arm or shoulder not his head) is causing him to not live up to people's expectations. I know he hasn't been great, but to say that he's been terrible just because he hasn't lived up to what you or anyone else (myself included) expects out of him, doesn't really mean a whole lot when you put things into perspective. Fix him. That's all I care about. If you can't then we need to send him elsewhere.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What are you a social worker? Don't you think Larry and Lou have tried to "fix" him? I don't care about his problems. I care about his results.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't aware that social workers treat physical issues. Where did I say anything EVER about fixing what is going on in his head?
I'm starting to wonder if many of you are even reading some of the posts here from the other side.
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<!--quoteo(post=107510:date=Jul 23 2010, 11:08 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Zambrano allowed 2 hits and escaped allowing a run thanks to a great catch by Fuld. He topped out at 91 mph.
Sure looks to be in middle season form!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Awesome, all reports read were that he was real shakey and Fuld saved his ass. Come on back Z, give up HRs and blow up every time you take the mound. I really am over this guy and his act. Go away, go far away.
Dylan McKay is my hero
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When you have millions and millions of dollars invested in a player, you don't just send them away.
If there's a way to fix him, then we need to do everything we can to fix him. If we trade him now, we're going to eat most of his salary and get dick in return. We might as well keep him and see if there's anything we can do to salvage the situation.
I don't think we're quite at the point where we dump him for nothing.
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<!--quoteo(post=107512:date=Jul 23 2010, 12:21 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jul 23 2010, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107510:date=Jul 23 2010, 11:08 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Zambrano allowed 2 hits and escaped allowing a run thanks to a great catch by Fuld. He topped out at 91 mph.
Sure looks to be in middle season form!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're really enjoying this aren't you?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would I enjoy our "ace" self destructing?
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<!--quoteo(post=107531:date=Jul 23 2010, 02:00 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 23 2010, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When you have millions and millions of dollars invested in a player, you don't just send them away.
If there's a way to fix him, then we need to do everything we can to fix him. If we trade him now, we're going to eat most of his salary and get dick in return. We might as well keep him and see if there's anything we can do to salvage the situation.
I don't think we're quite at the point where we dump him for nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't fix stupid.
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Ok, I agree with you in principal....BUT I say the only way your idea works is if they completely clean out the coaching staff and bring in a hell of a good manager and pitching coach who can give it a shot. Zambrano has progessively gotten worse under the Piniella/Rothschild regime. 2007 was good, since has been a downhill slide. At 29 it shouldn't fall off like that with his talent.
Like Rothschild or not, something isn't clicking there. If he can be fixed and be given a new start so to speak with the team, they better do some good fucking homework on who they bring in to coach his spazz ass.
Dylan McKay is my hero
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<!--quoteo(post=107541:date=Jul 23 2010, 01:20 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107531:date=Jul 23 2010, 02:00 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 23 2010, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When you have millions and millions of dollars invested in a player, you don't just send them away.
If there's a way to fix him, then we need to do everything we can to fix him. If we trade him now, we're going to eat most of his salary and get dick in return. We might as well keep him and see if there's anything we can do to salvage the situation.
I don't think we're quite at the point where we dump him for nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't fix stupid.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
See this is the issue here. Has he gotten progressively more stupid or is there something physically wrong with him? His velocity and movement can't all be suffering from just having an empty head, at least I don't think.
And what I meant from my earlier comment wasn't about you enjoying watching Z self-destruct, but about enjoying the back and forth of the argument, which seems to be mostly people ganging up on the guy at this point.
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<!--quoteo(post=107542:date=Jul 23 2010, 01:21 PM:name=willis)-->QUOTE (willis @ Jul 23 2010, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ok, I agree with you in principal....BUT I say the only way your idea works is if they completely clean out the coaching staff and bring in a hell of a good manager and pitching coach who can give it a shot. Zambrano has progessively gotten worse under the Piniella/Rothschild regime. 2007 was good, since has been a downhill slide. At 29 it shouldn't fall off like that with his talent.
Like Rothschild or not, something isn't clicking there. If he can be fixed and be given a new start so to speak with the team, they better do some good fucking homework on who they bring in to coach his spazz ass.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rothschild had a lot to do with Zambranos success when he was a Cy Young candidate. That's kind of like the ol' rock that keeps lions away that PCB likes to pull out from time to time.
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1. Zambrano struggled early in the season and was banished to the bullpen despite the fact that he's been a solid pitcher his entire career.
2. Gorzallaney has not been a solid pitcher his entire career, Silva was coming off back to back terrible seasons, Wells was in his second year. They stayed in the rotation.
3. Zambrano has a history of volitility.
4. Despite the fact Zambrano has gotten progressively worse thoughout his career, he's still been one of the best pitchers in the NL.
Synopsis: Zambrano earned the right, through quality and quantity of work, to be able to work his problems out early in the season. Couple that with the fact he's completely insane, and you have to wonder what the fuck was going through Lou and Hendry's minds when they made the retarded decision to put him in the bullpen. Hendry and Lou took a bad situation and blew it to hell.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=107572:date=Jul 23 2010, 02:26 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jul 23 2010, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->1. Zambrano struggled early in the season and was banished to the bullpen despite the fact that he's been a solid pitcher his entire career.
2. Gorzallaney has not been a solid pitcher his entire career, Silva was coming off back to back terrible seasons, Wells was in his second year. They stayed in the rotation.
3. Zambrano has a history of volitility.
4. Despite the fact Zambrano has gotten progressively worse thoughout his career, he's still been one of the best pitchers in the NL.
Synopsis: Zambrano earned the right, through quality and quantity of work, to be able to work his problems out early in the season. Couple that with the fact he's completely insane, and you have to wonder what the fuck was going through Lou and Hendry's minds when they made the retarded decision to put him in the bullpen. Hendry and Lou took a bad situation and blew it to hell.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kaboom.
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