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<!--quoteo(post=103484:date=Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Destined)-->QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103482:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, I think there are basically 3 examples of this: Sosa, Bradley, & Zambrano.
Bradley & Zambrano were not cases where Hendry could really lower their value. Everything that had happened was already public.
Yes, I think he lowered Sosa's value by releasing that Sosa lied about when he left Wrigley. <b> At the same time, he also had to make the thought of trading Sosa palatable to Cubs fans. A few months before, that had been almost inconceivable.</b>
The "Hendry kills trade values" theme is overblown at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much of a point. Fan approval of roster moves is a what's overblown. Fans have virtually no role at all in the outcomes of these situations.
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<!--quoteo(post=103485:date=Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103484:date=Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103482:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, I think there are basically 3 examples of this: Sosa, Bradley, & Zambrano.
Bradley & Zambrano were not cases where Hendry could really lower their value. Everything that had happened was already public.
Yes, I think he lowered Sosa's value by releasing that Sosa lied about when he left Wrigley. <b> At the same time, he also had to make the thought of trading Sosa palatable to Cubs fans. A few months before, that had been almost inconceivable.</b>
The "Hendry kills trade values" theme is overblown at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much of a point. Fan approval of roster moves is a what's overblown. Fans have virtually no role at all in the outcomes of these situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah...it's not like fans don't buy tickets or anything.
What Kid said is right. Hendry got vocal and all, but it eased the pain of losing Sammy big time. Sure, it probably cost the chance retiring #21, or a Sosa Day or what have you, but that has been wiped away with 'roid allegations anyways.
I hate my pretentious sounding username too.
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<!--quoteo(post=103490:date=Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM:name=Destined)-->QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103485:date=Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103484:date=Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103482:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, I think there are basically 3 examples of this: Sosa, Bradley, & Zambrano.
Bradley & Zambrano were not cases where Hendry could really lower their value. Everything that had happened was already public.
Yes, I think he lowered Sosa's value by releasing that Sosa lied about when he left Wrigley. <b> At the same time, he also had to make the thought of trading Sosa palatable to Cubs fans. A few months before, that had been almost inconceivable.</b>
The "Hendry kills trade values" theme is overblown at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much of a point. Fan approval of roster moves is a what's overblown. Fans have virtually no role at all in the outcomes of these situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah...it's not like fans don't buy tickets or anything.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The weather has a bigger impact. And any personnel change is made meaningless by wins and losses. Dumping a player has a bigger economic impact in terms of salary eaten and merchandise put on clearance than in diminished ticket sales. There is no one on the roster who's unceremonious departure wouldn't be forgiven for oh...five or six additional wins.
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<!--quoteo(post=103496:date=Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103490:date=Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103485:date=Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103484:date=Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103482:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, I think there are basically 3 examples of this: Sosa, Bradley, & Zambrano.
Bradley & Zambrano were not cases where Hendry could really lower their value. Everything that had happened was already public.
Yes, I think he lowered Sosa's value by releasing that Sosa lied about when he left Wrigley. <b> At the same time, he also had to make the thought of trading Sosa palatable to Cubs fans. A few months before, that had been almost inconceivable.</b>
The "Hendry kills trade values" theme is overblown at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much of a point. Fan approval of roster moves is a what's overblown. Fans have virtually no role at all in the outcomes of these situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah...it's not like fans don't buy tickets or anything.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The weather has a bigger impact. And any personnel change is made meaningless by wins and losses. Dumping a player has a bigger economic impact in terms of salary eaten and merchandise put on clearance than in diminished ticket sales. There is no one on the roster who's unceremonious departure wouldn't be forgiven for oh...five or six additional wins.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the overwhelming majority of players, you're right. In the case of the rare exception, beloved face of the franchise players like Sosa, you're dead wrong.
This is not some silly theory that's unsupported and deserves being mocked by photos of Xena. ![[Image: ITgoyeg.png]](http://i.imgur.com/ITgoyeg.png)
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<!--quoteo(post=103497:date=Jun 29 2010, 08:32 AM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 29 2010, 08:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103496:date=Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103490:date=Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103485:date=Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103484:date=Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103482:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, I think there are basically 3 examples of this: Sosa, Bradley, & Zambrano.
Bradley & Zambrano were not cases where Hendry could really lower their value. Everything that had happened was already public.
Yes, I think he lowered Sosa's value by releasing that Sosa lied about when he left Wrigley. <b> At the same time, he also had to make the thought of trading Sosa palatable to Cubs fans. A few months before, that had been almost inconceivable.</b>
The "Hendry kills trade values" theme is overblown at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much of a point. Fan approval of roster moves is a what's overblown. Fans have virtually no role at all in the outcomes of these situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah...it's not like fans don't buy tickets or anything.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The weather has a bigger impact. And any personnel change is made meaningless by wins and losses. Dumping a player has a bigger economic impact in terms of salary eaten and merchandise put on clearance than in diminished ticket sales. There is no one on the roster who's unceremonious departure wouldn't be forgiven for oh...five or six additional wins.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the overwhelming majority of players, you're right. In the case of the rare exception, beloved face of the franchise players like Sosa, you're dead wrong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo
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<!--quoteo(post=103497:date=Jun 29 2010, 07:32 AM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 29 2010, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103496:date=Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103490:date=Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103485:date=Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103484:date=Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103482:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, I think there are basically 3 examples of this: Sosa, Bradley, & Zambrano.
Bradley & Zambrano were not cases where Hendry could really lower their value. Everything that had happened was already public.
Yes, I think he lowered Sosa's value by releasing that Sosa lied about when he left Wrigley. <b> At the same time, he also had to make the thought of trading Sosa palatable to Cubs fans. A few months before, that had been almost inconceivable.</b>
The "Hendry kills trade values" theme is overblown at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much of a point. Fan approval of roster moves is a what's overblown. Fans have virtually no role at all in the outcomes of these situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah...it's not like fans don't buy tickets or anything.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The weather has a bigger impact. And any personnel change is made meaningless by wins and losses. Dumping a player has a bigger economic impact in terms of salary eaten and merchandise put on clearance than in diminished ticket sales. There is no one on the roster who's unceremonious departure wouldn't be forgiven for oh...five or six additional wins.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the overwhelming majority of players, you're right. In the case of the rare exception, beloved face of the franchise players like Sosa, you're dead wrong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you imagine if Pujols was shopped and traded for pennies on the dollar without an explanation?
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<!--quoteo(post=103497:date=Jun 29 2010, 07:32 AM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 29 2010, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103496:date=Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103490:date=Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103485:date=Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103484:date=Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103482:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, I think there are basically 3 examples of this: Sosa, Bradley, & Zambrano.
Bradley & Zambrano were not cases where Hendry could really lower their value. Everything that had happened was already public.
Yes, I think he lowered Sosa's value by releasing that Sosa lied about when he left Wrigley. <b> At the same time, he also had to make the thought of trading Sosa palatable to Cubs fans. A few months before, that had been almost inconceivable.</b>
The "Hendry kills trade values" theme is overblown at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much of a point. Fan approval of roster moves is a what's overblown. Fans have virtually no role at all in the outcomes of these situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah...it's not like fans don't buy tickets or anything.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The weather has a bigger impact. And any personnel change is made meaningless by wins and losses. Dumping a player has a bigger economic impact in terms of salary eaten and merchandise put on clearance than in diminished ticket sales. There is no one on the roster who's unceremonious departure wouldn't be forgiven for oh...five or six additional wins.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the overwhelming majority of players, you're right. In the case of the rare exception, beloved face of the franchise players like Sosa, you're dead wrong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who do we have right now that qualifies? What were the attendance figures after Sosa was gone?
Edit: Just looked it up. Attendance was up for 2005 over 2004.
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<!--quoteo(post=103503:date=Jun 29 2010, 08:29 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 29 2010, 08:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103497:date=Jun 29 2010, 07:32 AM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 29 2010, 07:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103496:date=Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 29 2010, 07:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103490:date=Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 29 2010, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103485:date=Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 28 2010, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103484:date=Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ Jun 28 2010, 11:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103482:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Jun 28 2010, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, I think there are basically 3 examples of this: Sosa, Bradley, & Zambrano.
Bradley & Zambrano were not cases where Hendry could really lower their value. Everything that had happened was already public.
Yes, I think he lowered Sosa's value by releasing that Sosa lied about when he left Wrigley. <b> At the same time, he also had to make the thought of trading Sosa palatable to Cubs fans. A few months before, that had been almost inconceivable.</b>
The "Hendry kills trade values" theme is overblown at best.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not much of a point. Fan approval of roster moves is a what's overblown. Fans have virtually no role at all in the outcomes of these situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah...it's not like fans don't buy tickets or anything.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The weather has a bigger impact. And any personnel change is made meaningless by wins and losses. Dumping a player has a bigger economic impact in terms of salary eaten and merchandise put on clearance than in diminished ticket sales. There is no one on the roster who's unceremonious departure wouldn't be forgiven for oh...five or six additional wins.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the overwhelming majority of players, you're right. In the case of the rare exception, beloved face of the franchise players like Sosa, you're dead wrong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can you imagine if Pujols was shopped and traded for pennies on the dollar without an explanation?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's Pujols and Saint Louis. I don't see the analogy.
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Well, now this is just getting silly. How does Millar get to speak with Z and not his teammates?
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/...vin-millar.html
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Kevin Millar was Carlos Zambrano's teammate for only seven weeks in spring training.
But while Zambrano wouldn't pick up the phone to answer Alfonso Soriano's call, he apparently did when Millar called him Saturday night.
Millar, now an analyst for MLB Network, said Zambrano's rave-out on Friday has been misinterpreted, at least according to Zambrano.
"The main thing he wanted to get across was that at times guys like Carlos, they don't know how to handle or how to fire up a team," Millar said. "There wasn't one play that made him mad, it was just the whole team and the way they've been playing made him mad and then he was frustrated, he said, after his inning and came in and was basically trying to pump all the guys up."
Millar said Zambrano told him last week he wanted Carlos Silva "to do something to the team because he's doing well and Carlos Zambrano said that he knew he wasn't the right guy to do this at this time because of his struggles."
Millar said he told Zambrano: "Straight up, I said... 'You can't say the team's playing like girls ... You can't say that this whole team that's not clicking for some reason' or 'We're not playing hard' because he's a big part of that problem.
"He understood that ... and that's what he was trying to get across. It wasn't a personal thing with Derrek Lee - obviously Derrek Lee took it personal, and (Zambrano) felt terrible and we obviously see what happened in the dugout. We see the way he's reacted and this is the second time. He went out and fought Michael Barrett (in '07) and beat up Michael Barrett.
"Well, then they end up trading Michael Barrett thinking that, 'OK, we'll get rid of him but something has to be done.' Now him (Zambrano's) going to anger management counseling...I think this is the new fad that we're trying to show that at least there's an effort there."
Millar said Zambrano knew "that he shouldn't have done it, he wasn't the right guy to do it," and that "it wasn't the Derrek Lee play that caused this whole scene. He ran in the dugout and was yelling at the whole group."
Does Zambrano want to stay with the Cubs?
"I think he wants to heal the situation, whether he remains a Chicago Cub or not," Millar said. "Who knows if the wounds are too deep? Who knows? That's Jim Hendry's job.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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It's not surprising that Z would reach out to someone outside of the organization. I'm sure he feels totally ostracized right now.
Fuck I hate this organization sometimes.
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Yeah, I feel real bad for Zambrano
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Hendry doesn't have to sell this shit to the fans to protect the franchise. He's just trying to bolster his own image in this. He's an asshole.
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<!--quoteo(post=103521:date=Jun 29 2010, 10:36 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 29 2010, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Hendry doesn't have to sell this shit to the fans to protect the franchise. He's just trying to bolster his own image in this. He's an asshole.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you in Zambrano's case. But you can't just take a superstar like Sammy and get rid of him without explanation.
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The Cubs need to do everything they can to fix this Zambrano thing, eating all or most of $45 M seems like the worst idea possible.
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<!--quoteo(post=103522:date=Jun 29 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 29 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103521:date=Jun 29 2010, 10:36 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 29 2010, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Hendry doesn't have to sell this shit to the fans to protect the franchise. He's just trying to bolster his own image in this. He's an asshole.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you in Zambrano's case. But you can't just take a superstar like Sammy and get rid of him without explanation.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You could try but the press would never have let Sammy's departure go without an explanation. Not providing an explanation would become a bigger sideshow and distraction. But beyond that and the fact that we fans expect to have a general sense of what's going on, there's no business matter that depended on the press or us getting a satisfactory explanation.
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