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<!--quoteo(post=106229:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:34 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 19 2010, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106226:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:27 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 19 2010, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106218:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:14 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 19 2010, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106212:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:36 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 19 2010, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106211:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:28 PM:name=willis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (willis @ Jul 19 2010, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With Soto's OBP I don't think there is anything (other than speed) wrong with batting him 2nd as you suggest. I just don't think Piniella would ever be so bold as to put a catcher that high in a lineup. Whether right or wrong, that takes a bit of creativity...which old man Lou lacks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, though for me, putting Colvin and his .319 OBP at the top of the order is more "creative" (read: kind of silly).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait a minute...so Colvin's OBP is really, really low now? That really comes out of left field...color me stunned.
I guess Wilken's greatness has been over-emphasized, perhaps.
Colvin, Shark and Vitters, his most well-known picks, have yet to live up to the fanfare (although I'm a huge Cashner fan).
OTOH, one can see Jim's hands all over the Colvin and Shark deals, so maybe Wilken shouldn't be held accountable.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair, he's still been pretty damn good with the SLG part of the equation.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's slugged very well indeed. But his OPS+ (which <i>over</i>-empahasizes slugging, so you'd think it would play to his advantage) is 102. That's barely above average for a major-leaguer, but far below average for a corner OFer.
Why?
Because his OPB is terrible. And it always has been, throughout his minor-league and even college career.
So...<b>Cue up broken record</b>: this Cub player has a problem with strike zone judgement and plate discipline, which inevitably lead to poor On-base percentages, only the single most important offensive stat.
And some question whether the organization needs a change at the top.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you make me do this?
I would have been just fine with your comment if not for the last comment. Hendry has gone out of his way to bring in players that are known for taking walks (Lee, Bradley, Fukudome, DeRosa,). Along with that, they have developed players that are walkers (Soto, Theriot, and since he's hit the big leagues, Castro). I'm fine with you criticizing management for having a player that lacks plate discipline, but please don't act like that's all they do.
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<!--quoteo(post=106254:date=Jul 19 2010, 04:26 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jul 19 2010, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106229:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:34 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 19 2010, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106226:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:27 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 19 2010, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106218:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:14 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 19 2010, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106212:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:36 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 19 2010, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106211:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:28 PM:name=willis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (willis @ Jul 19 2010, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With Soto's OBP I don't think there is anything (other than speed) wrong with batting him 2nd as you suggest. I just don't think Piniella would ever be so bold as to put a catcher that high in a lineup. Whether right or wrong, that takes a bit of creativity...which old man Lou lacks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, though for me, putting Colvin and his .319 OBP at the top of the order is more "creative" (read: kind of silly).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait a minute...so Colvin's OBP is really, really low now? That really comes out of left field...color me stunned.
I guess Wilken's greatness has been over-emphasized, perhaps.
Colvin, Shark and Vitters, his most well-known picks, have yet to live up to the fanfare (although I'm a huge Cashner fan).
OTOH, one can see Jim's hands all over the Colvin and Shark deals, so maybe Wilken shouldn't be held accountable.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair, he's still been pretty damn good with the SLG part of the equation.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's slugged very well indeed. But his OPS+ (which <i>over</i>-empahasizes slugging, so you'd think it would play to his advantage) is 102. That's barely above average for a major-leaguer, but far below average for a corner OFer.
Why?
Because his OPB is terrible. And it always has been, throughout his minor-league and even college career.
So...<b>Cue up broken record</b>: this Cub player has a problem with strike zone judgement and plate discipline, which inevitably lead to poor On-base percentages, only the single most important offensive stat.
And some question whether the organization needs a change at the top.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you make me do this?
I would have been just fine with your comment if not for the last comment. Hendry has gone out of his way to bring in players that are known for taking walks (Lee, Bradley, Fukudome, DeRosa,). Along with that, they have developed players that are walkers (Soto, Theriot, and since he's hit the big leagues, Castro). I'm fine with you criticizing management for having a player that lacks plate discipline, but please don't act like that's all they do.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Theriot is not a walker, nor is he a Texas ranger. I wouldn't say Castro is either, though he could be eventually ( a walker, not a Texas ranger).
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=106254:date=Jul 19 2010, 04:26 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jul 19 2010, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106229:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:34 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 19 2010, 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106226:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:27 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 19 2010, 03:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106218:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:14 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 19 2010, 03:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106212:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:36 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 19 2010, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=106211:date=Jul 19 2010, 02:28 PM:name=willis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (willis @ Jul 19 2010, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With Soto's OBP I don't think there is anything (other than speed) wrong with batting him 2nd as you suggest. I just don't think Piniella would ever be so bold as to put a catcher that high in a lineup. Whether right or wrong, that takes a bit of creativity...which old man Lou lacks.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, though for me, putting Colvin and his .319 OBP at the top of the order is more "creative" (read: kind of silly).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait a minute...so Colvin's OBP is really, really low now? That really comes out of left field...color me stunned.
I guess Wilken's greatness has been over-emphasized, perhaps.
Colvin, Shark and Vitters, his most well-known picks, have yet to live up to the fanfare (although I'm a huge Cashner fan).
OTOH, one can see Jim's hands all over the Colvin and Shark deals, so maybe Wilken shouldn't be held accountable.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To be fair, he's still been pretty damn good with the SLG part of the equation.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's slugged very well indeed. But his OPS+ (which <i>over</i>-empahasizes slugging, so you'd think it would play to his advantage) is 102. That's barely above average for a major-leaguer, but far below average for a corner OFer.
Why?
Because his OPB is terrible. And it always has been, throughout his minor-league and even college career.
So...<b>Cue up broken record</b>: this Cub player has a problem with strike zone judgement and plate discipline, which inevitably lead to poor On-base percentages, only the single most important offensive stat.
And some question whether the organization needs a change at the top.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you make me do this?
I would have been just fine with your comment if not for the last comment. Hendry has gone out of his way to bring in players that are known for taking walks (Lee, Bradley, Fukudome, DeRosa,). Along with that, they have developed players that are walkers (Soto, Theriot, and since he's hit the big leagues, Castro). I'm fine with you criticizing management for having a player that lacks plate discipline, but please don't act like that's all they do.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Theriot's plate discipline comes and goes like a cold sore.
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I was going to post something about Colvin being better suited to be a platoon player, but then I realized he actually is slightly more productive against LHs. That said, he does tend to work more BB against RHs, so I'm guessing that he might benefit further from some rest now and then.
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Problem is your alternative to Colvin is Nady...terrible. And Fukudome, worse than terrible. Play Colvin every day, he's the best option in Right.
Theriot's plate discipline kind of went south last year when he thought he was Andre Dawson for a couple weeks. Since then, he is a free swinger, very early swinger at the plate. Without plate discipline, the kid is pretty much worthless.
Dylan McKay is my hero
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Let's not forget that Colvin is a rokkie. His plate discipline may come with time.
Wang.
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I listed Theriot as a walker because he averaged 50 BB per 162 games which is pretty decent. He's no Adam Dunn, but before this year, he took walks at a pretty good clip.
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This is by Dave V. from the Posnanski site:
Here’s what the league leaders in OBP% have done in the 2000s (regular season winning % in parentheses)
2009: Yankees (.636% – won World Series)
2008: Red Sox (.586% – lost in ALCS)
2007: Yankees (.580% – lost in ALDS)
2006: Yankees (.599% – lost in ALDS)
2005: Red Sox (.586% – lost in ALDS)
2004: Red Sox (.605% – won World Series)
2003: Red Sox (.586% – lost in ALCS)
2002: Yankees (.640% – lost in ALDS)
2001: Mariners (.716% – lost in ALCS)
2000: Indians (.556% – no playoffs)
<b>So 9 of 10 teams made the playoffs</b> and the one that didn’t (2000 Indians) won 90 games.
Two of the MLB OBP% leaders won the World Series and there also was the MLB regular season wins record-holder in the 2001 Seattle team represented in this group.
I will also mention that the Cubs usually finish in the bottom 10 in MLB OBP. The one year they didn't was the 97-win season.
One could say that there is a connection between OBP and winning baseball games, but I don't want to go out on a limb.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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Well shit KB, you may be onto something. Let's sign all the highest OBP guys from around the league. Thank God no one else knows about this stat.
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Hell yeah! Great idea.
Of course, since all the <i>good</i> teams are hoarding those players (fuckers), maybe we can at least DRAFT guys are aren't free-swinging hacktastic Hendryites.
Nah...crazy idea.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=106304:date=Jul 19 2010, 08:41 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jul 19 2010, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Hell yeah! Great idea.
Of course, since all the <i>good</i> teams are hoarding those players (fuckers), maybe we can at least DRAFT guys are aren't free-swinging hacktastic Hendryites.
Nah...crazy idea.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep because they <i>always</i> translate to GUARANTEED success!
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I don't see the Athletics anywhere on that list.
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You know what I see, 80% of the teams that finish with the highest OBP in the last 10 years, DO NOT win the World Series.
Ba dum da dum buh... STATS!!!!
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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After reading this, I feel retarded....and lumpy...like Tom and Rapp's love child.
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<!--quoteo(post=106362:date=Jul 19 2010, 11:30 PM:name=dk123)-->QUOTE (dk123 @ Jul 19 2010, 11:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->After reading this, I feel retarded....and lumpy...like Tom and Rapp's hate fuck child.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fixed for accuracy.
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"That was some of the saddest stuff I've ever read. Fuck cancer and AIDS, ignorance is the scourge of the land." - tom v
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