Farm System

[MrSheps]

The nice thing is these guys are much more highly regarded than Pie or Patterson.  Crazy to think those two were considered our "studs" at one point.

I think that's true of Pie, but wasn't Patterson a truly top prospect in the minors, I remember him being "prospect of the year" according at various levels according to Baseball America a few times in what was a short stint before he hit the majors.  But obviously I might not be remembering it correctly.  Maybe it's because our system wasn't deep at the time but I recall Patterson as a bigger deal than Baez actually.


Edit: Looked it up:

<i>Baseball America</i> loved Corey Patterson. After his first pro season, they made him their No. 3 prospect. After his second pro season -- at 20, he batted .261/.338/.491 in Class AA -- they made him their No. 2 prospect.

http://www.baseballnation.com/2013/6/7/4...ust-career

 

B.P. had him at at 5 at one point, John Sickles at #1.

 

Not to shit on Baez excitement at all, I think he'll be awesome, but just to put it in perspective.  I'm trying to stay cautiously optimistic.  

[Butcher]

In 2003 and 2004, it looked like Patterson was headed for a solid career.

[MrSheps]

Yeah, he didn't live up to the massive hype, but he was a decent player.  Wasn't he hurt too in 03 or 04?  I remember him finally looking like he had figured it out and then an injury?  My memory sucks though.  A lot of Patterson's appeal to scouts was his speed, and I think that was damaged by the injury.  But I could just be confusing injury pain with what happened to Soriano.  Man, his injury sucked.  We talk now about how ridiculous that signing was in terms of dollars and years, but the dude never lost the power.  Had he kept the speed on the bases for a few more seasons it would have been quite different.  He was a multiple 40 stolen bases guy who suddenly was looking at a max of 10 a year. 

[funkster]

He was seen as very "toolsy".  He was high in those rankings, but I still don't think he was every as highly regarded as some of this current crop.

[Bricklayer]

I think both Patterson and Pie were rushed to the majors and I think that is a mistake this FO is not about to make with any of our prospects.  Both had some signifcant holes in their game that should have been worked out before graduating up the ranks.  

 

And yes, after Patterson's injury running out a ground ball to first, he wasn't the same.  That and the rest of the league figured out he'd pretty much swing at anything.

[CFOrfan]

Yeah, he didn't live up to the massive hype, but he was a decent player.  Wasn't he hurt too in 03 or 04?  I remember him finally looking like he had figured it out and then an injury?  My memory sucks though.  A lot of Patterson's appeal to scouts was his speed, and I think that was damaged by the injury.  But I could just be confusing injury pain with what happened to Soriano.  Man, his injury sucked.  We talk now about how ridiculous that signing was in terms of dollars and years, but the dude never lost the power.  Had he kept the speed on the bases for a few more seasons it would have been quite different.  He was a multiple 40 stolen bases guy who suddenly was looking at a max of 10 a year. 

He got off to a great start in 03, but when he hurt his knee he was well on his way to having his numbers dropping. He was hitting like .260/an OBP below .300/inssert other crappy stat here in June/July. If he would've stayed healthy, the Cubs likely miss the playoffs because they probably don't trade for Lofton (and possibly don't acquire Aramis).

[bz]

I think both Patterson and Pie were rushed to the majors and I think that is a mistake this FO is not about to make with any of our prospects.  Both had some signifcant holes in their game that should have been worked out before graduating up the ranks.  

 

And yes, after Patterson's injury running out a ground ball to first, he wasn't the same.  That and the rest of the league figured out he'd pretty much swing at anything.

Plus, Pie just sat on the bench on the major league team.  You're right.  They were both mismanaged. 

[funkster]

I will never forget those wild strike three swings of Patterson's as long as I live.

[MrSheps]

He was seen as very "toolsy".  He was high in those rankings, but I still don't think he was every as highly regarded as some of this current crop.

Well, I think you can look back now and say he was overrated because people fell in love with the 5-tool player idea, but my point was just that he was as big of a deal when he started in the minors if not bigger than Baez is now.  I think the big difference now is we have multiple guys at once at the top of these lists, instead of 1.  But over the last several years I'd argue Patterson and Pryor were our two biggest or best regarded prospects by scouts.  Since Pie I guess Vitters comes to mind, but he never seemed to hit the Patterson or Pryor level of gushing by scouts.  It's certainly cool to look at the potential of multiple guys now, instead of one at time which seemed to be the norm for awhile. 

[jstraw]

Are there a lot of five tool stars...or are most five tool guys with careers mostly utility/journeymen types?

[Butcher]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="funkster" data-cid="214420" data-time="1390935967">
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He was seen as very "toolsy".  He was high in those rankings, but I still don't think he was every as highly regarded as some of this current crop.

Well, I think you can look back now and say he was overrated because people fell in love with the 5-tool player idea, but my point was just that he was as big of a deal when he started in the minors if not bigger than Baez is now.  I think the big difference now is we have multiple guys at once at the top of these lists, instead of 1.  But over the last several years I'd argue Patterson and Pryor were our two biggest or best regarded prospects by scouts.  Since Pie I guess Vitters comes to mind, but he never seemed to hit the Patterson or Pryor level of gushing by scouts.  It's certainly cool to look at the potential of multiple guys now, instead of one at time which seemed to be the norm for awhile. 

 

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[1060Ivy]

One other point to support the 'it's different now' approach is that Cubs organization has placed more money and staff into revamping/building up the development side of the minor league system.  MacPhail - via Hendry - took similar approach but by the time Pie was going through the system - much it lagged behind other clubs. 

 

Hopefully, with additional staff, money, updated approach and patience, the Cubs will have better experience getting more out of the prospect pipeline.

[vitaminB]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MrSheps" data-cid="214426" data-time="1390938363">
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="funkster" data-cid="214420" data-time="1390935967">
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He was seen as very "toolsy".  He was high in those rankings, but I still don't think he was every as highly regarded as some of this current crop.

Well, I think you can look back now and say he was overrated because people fell in love with the 5-tool player idea, but my point was just that he was as big of a deal when he started in the minors if not bigger than Baez is now.  I think the big difference now is we have multiple guys at once at the top of these lists, instead of 1.  But over the last several years I'd argue Patterson and Pryor were our two biggest or best regarded prospects by scouts.  Since Pie I guess Vitters comes to mind, but he never seemed to hit the Patterson or Pryor level of gushing by scouts.  It's certainly cool to look at the potential of multiple guys now, instead of one at time which seemed to be the norm for awhile. 

 

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You would think a dude in LA would know how to spell his name right.

[MrSheps]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MrSheps" data-cid="214426" data-time="1390938363">
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="funkster" data-cid="214420" data-time="1390935967">
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He was seen as very "toolsy".  He was high in those rankings, but I still don't think he was every as highly regarded as some of this current crop.

Well, I think you can look back now and say he was overrated because people fell in love with the 5-tool player idea, but my point was just that he was as big of a deal when he started in the minors if not bigger than Baez is now.  I think the big difference now is we have multiple guys at once at the top of these lists, instead of 1.  But over the last several years I'd argue Patterson and Pryor were our two biggest or best regarded prospects by scouts.  Since Pie I guess Vitters comes to mind, but he never seemed to hit the Patterson or Pryor level of gushing by scouts.  It's certainly cool to look at the potential of multiple guys now, instead of one at time which seemed to be the norm for awhile. 

 

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-Funkster said it's nice that our current prospects are much more highly regarded than Pie or Patterson were.

-I showed evidence that Patterson was for a few years as highly or more highly regarded than Baez, our top guy, is now.

-Funk said he still thinks Baez is today more highly regarded than Patterson was then.

-I still disagree, but I do think what's better about our situation now is that instead of having one guy at the top of these lists of top prospects at a time (i.e. Patterson in the early 2000s), we have several now at the same time. Strength in numbers, one of them is bound to not be a bust. 

[bz]

One other point to support the 'it's different now' approach is that Cubs organization has placed more money and staff into revamping/building up the development side of the minor league system.  MacPhail - via Hendry - took similar approach but by the time Pie was going through the system - much it lagged behind other clubs. 

 

Hopefully, with additional staff, money, updated approach and patience, the Cubs will have better experience getting more out of the prospect pipeline.

Plus scouting and metrics have improved.

 

 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MrSheps" data-cid="214426" data-time="1390938363">
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="funkster" data-cid="214420" data-time="1390935967">
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He was seen as very "toolsy".  He was high in those rankings, but I still don't think he was every as highly regarded as some of this current crop.

Well, I think you can look back now and say he was overrated because people fell in love with the 5-tool player idea, but my point was just that he was as big of a deal when he started in the minors if not bigger than Baez is now.  I think the big difference now is we have multiple guys at once at the top of these lists, instead of 1.  But over the last several years I'd argue Patterson and Pryor were our two biggest or best regarded prospects by scouts.  Since Pie I guess Vitters comes to mind, but he never seemed to hit the Patterson or Pryor level of gushing by scouts.  It's certainly cool to look at the potential of multiple guys now, instead of one at time which seemed to be the norm for awhile. 

 

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-Funkster said it's nice that our current prospects are much more highly regarded than Pie or Patterson were.

-I showed evidence that Patterson was for a few years as highly or more highly regarded than Baez, our top guy, is now.

-Funk said he still thinks Baez is today more highly regarded than Patterson was then.

-I still disagree, but I do think what's better about our situation now is that instead of having one guy at the top of these lists of top prospects at a time (i.e. Patterson in the early 2000s), we have several now at the same time. Strength in numbers, one of them is bound to not be a bust. 

 

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You wrote Pryor.  His name is Prior.