2014 SOI Keeper Fantasy Football League

[Kid]

My plan since last offseason was to keep Gordon. Not being able to actively hurts my team this year. I'm not sure how that's debatable.

 

The point is that precluding the keeper won't hurt you other than by the fact that you won't get the keeper which, in my opinion, you shouldn't be able to have.  It only negates the offending transaction, it doesn't otherwise hurt your team in any way.

 

If there had been a deadline or other rule precluding you from thinking you could keep Gordon, as there should have been, you'd be in exactly the same boat as you are in now.

[PcB]

There wasn't a deadline though.

[Kid]

Correct.  But the point is that there should have been a rule closing this loophole (deadline or otherwise), and there's an opportunity to correct that.  

 

If you were being harmed in some way other than not being allowed to keep the player who, the point is that you should have been able to try and keep in the first place, that would be significant.  But that's not the case.  You're no worse off than if the loophole hadn't existed.

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

I think there will have to be a provision in the keeper deadline rule that the team cannot have a player when the deadline passes, drop that player in the future week, and pick him back up again, expecting to be able to keep him. In other words, any keeper must be on the roster not only as the deadline passes, but from then to the end of the season.

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

All that said, I still think there is a distinction to be made in this case from what Ace did. Jones was useless to his original owner, likely because of his high draft position. Forcing the owner to hold onto Jones in order to prevent another owner to pick him up at a bargain draft position for the next year is a penalty that owner didn't deserve. However, PcB's nabbing Gordon caused no such penalty to any of the other owners. I guess I really don't see it as a loophole.


I'm fine with the idea that going forward, we make it hurt a little more for a team to pick up a player like Gordon by making them have to carry him for a longer period of time in a season. But I sincerely think that PCB should be grandfathered in.

[PcB]

Let's just pretend that instead of this player being Josh Gordon he was Ahmad Bradshaw. I really doubt anybody would have any issue with me wanting to keep him this year. That's all I'm saying.

[Kid]

You wouldn't have added Ahmad Bradshaw to your team after the season was over for the purpose of keeping him for the next year.

[PcB]

You wouldn't have added Ahmad Bradshaw to your team after the season was over for the purpose of keeping him for the next year.

What if I had? Would I be able to keep him?

[Kid]

This has nothing to do with the player.  My position would be the same.  It just wouldn't come up because you wouldn't have kept Bradshaw.

[PcB]

Like I've said all along. It's more about the player than the loophole.

[Fella]

I'm fine if he keeps Gordon if we are voting. Isn't he suspended the first 4 games?

[Clapp]

I get both sides of this... I really don't have an opinion. 

 

And yes, Gordon is suspended the first four games. so nearly 1/3 of the fantasy season. 

[liner]

I'm sorry but I feel the same as Clapp. Exploiting loopholes in the league I run falls under a category we call "don't be a douche" rules. You're going to get away with it if I haven't previously found and closed the loophole but you're going to get shit for it. Over the years since people don't want to be "that guy" for the most part when something they see seems to be a loophole they bring it to my attention and we close that bitch. It just becomes a lot of rule micromanagement at that point but we have a pretty intricate system anyways.


That said, I really don't think pcb was thinking about the quasi Ace loophole and just thought he was being smart in planning for next year. Staying active as an owner even after being out of it. Like, if I thought he planned on bombing and came up with the idea in week 5 or something to lose and then nab Gordon after the playoffs started, then I'd think he was, as our league calls it, being a douche about a loophole, which in our league would mean he didn't break any rules so he gets to keep him but it's kind of shitty. I don't think he did that, though. I think he was just staying active after the bell rang, saw an opportunity to not repeat a non playoff year this year, and took it.


I guess it comes down to the league. Whether or not punishing loophole exploiters with concrete consequences is a thing or not. Kid seems to be the only one who has spoken who feels that the Ace incident says that we are. That's what makes me indifferent. If everyone remembered the Ace thing and chimed in that this was the same situation I would expect pcb to say oops and not keep Gordon. That's not the case but Kid seems pretty sure and definitely more knowledgeable than I am so I'm not prepared to argue him on his point either. Either way it goes it's good that we'll continue with another loophole closed or at least figured out.



Also, is the draft order on there correct? If so, it's not a snake and I pick last? Is that right? Doesn't seem right.

[PcB]

I think it's a snake draft and Kid picks last.

[Kid]

This isn't about punishing PcB.  I would think of punishment as something to the effect of:  you can't keep Gordon and because you did something underhanded, you are losing the #1 draft pick.  PcB didn't do anything wrong, so there's nothing to "punish" him for.  

 

This is purely closing a loophole.  That's what we did when Ace started signing IR players.  We changed the rule so that he couldn't do that without being stuck with their prior year's draft position.  We didn't grandfather Ace when making that rule change.  That wasn't punishment either.  Like PcB, Ace had taken advantage (I don't mean that in a bad way) of an area where we didn't have a rule but needed one.  So we implemented the rule and effectively made it retroactive to include what Ace had done.  Ace wasn't "punished."  We just closed the loophole.  Ace was no worse off than if we had that rule all along.  That's all I'm advocating for PcB.