White Sox

[Butcher]

Additionally, can you imagine Santo ever saying he'd never step foot inside Guaranteed Rate Field?

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

You ever hear Ron talk about the Mets?

 

By the way, fuck the Mets.

[Butcher]

You ever hear Ron talk about the Mets?

 

By the way, fuck the Mets.

 

Sure. But again, it's hard to imagine him saying anything similar to what Hawk said there inserting Cubs for White Sox and Mets for Cubs.

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

Agreed, Ron would never say that the Mets did something right.

 

Honestly, the "kick their asses" is the problem here? Imma let you in on a secret: Harrelson's a big White Sox homer.

[Butcher]

Agreed, Ron would never say that the Mets did something right.

 

Honestly, the "kick their asses" is the problem here? Imma let you in on a secret: Harrelson's a big White Sox homer.

 

The problem? I don't know if it's a problem, it's just what Hawk (and many other White Sox fans) does, I guess. Hawk seems to care way more about the White Sox beating the Cubs than about anything else. It's more important that they beat the Cubs than win their division, go deep into the playoffs, be a perennial contender, win a pennant, win the World Series (all things he DIDN'T mention being excited about potentially happening). Just beating the Cubs.

 

Can you imagine *any* Cubs media person seeing their farm team ranked in the Top 5 and saying, "We've built a solid foundation -- one that's going to start paying dividends in the next few years. I can't wait til we start kicking the White Sox's asses."? It's insanity.

[rok]

He won't live long enough to see his beloved Sox kick any Cub asses.

[Bricklayer]

Slaw, the Mets were a direct competitor that kept Santo's team out of the World Series.  Hating the Mets or the Cardinals or any other national league team is reasonable.

 

Hawk just embodies and celebrates the whole sox fan inferiority complex that fuels their asshole-ish attitude.

 

At this point, hating the Cubs is their identity. It just does not go much deeper than that.

[1060Ivy]

Yeah, but what if Ron Santo gave a similar statement with teams reversed in 2006? I'd be all for it, wouldn't you?

Santo did give congratulations and respect to the 2005 Sox team. I was fine with Santo for it. The big difference is that despite the statement Hawk has frequently spoken of his distaste - sorry - his hate for the Cubs.


Santo was a true die hard homer of an announcer who was said silly and sometime dumb things but still had an element of class which escapes Hawk. Perhaps it was Santo’s self deprecating manner which makes Santo analogy off to me.

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

I've said this before, but maybe it's the distance I have from it all. Being in Ohio for over 12 years now, I get no exposure to the daily Chicago sports show call-in crapping. The Sox-fan friends I have that are Cub haters I regard as being cute, and their pettiness is not really worth my discomfort.

 

To be honest, I think Sox fans have some validity to the argument that they have long-been portrayed as the second-class baseball team in Chicago (and nationally--e.g., the SI cover incident when the Sox won the WS). Politics, geography, demographics all play a factor. I'm from the south suburbs, and that chip on the southsider shoulder extends beyond baseball too.

 

All that said, I DO think Hawk is an asshat. However, I can't see him as anything more than a clown. Unlike Trump, he holds no real power.

[Butcher]

Before 2016, all of their bullshit bugged me because they always had 2005 and 108 years. But now that is gone and they have dick. So it really doesn't bother me anymore. I truly don't think all that much about them unless I have to encounter any of their fans directly, which is almost never. The crosstown series is hellish to me and I really try to avoid it. There's no upside to it at all. If we win, I just don't have to hear their bullshit -- that's the only plus for me.

 

Here's the deal. If Sox fans filled their stadium the way Cubs fans do, it would go a really long way toward eliminating the whole second-class team thing. Instead of doing that, they just amplify their hatred of the Cubs and the Northside and continue whining (none of which helps their cause). It comes off as jealousy and only cements the narrative. Last year, the White Sox were 27th in attendance. The Cubs were 6th. I know -- the Cubs were coming off their first WS win in 100+ years and the Sox were brutal, right? Let's take a look at 2005: The White Sox were 17th in attendance *the year they won the fucking World Series.* And the Cubs? 6th. In a year they won 79 games, finished 4th in their division, and Neifi Perez was their starting shortstop the Cubs were 11 slots higher in attendance than the White Sox in their World Series winning season. So maybe there's a legitimate reason they're treated like an afterthought in Chicago?

 

Again, pre-2016, it would bug me. Post-2016? *shrug*

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

Let's take a look at 2005: The White Sox were 17th in attendance *the year they won the fucking World Series.* And the Cubs? 6th. In a year they won 79 games, finished 4th in their division, and Neifi Perez was their starting shortstop the Cubs were 11 slots higher in attendance than the White Sox in their World Series winning season. So maybe there's a legitimate reason they're treated like an afterthought in Chicago?

 

Understand that I still am down on the White Sox in general and certainly on Harrelson is particular. But the locations of Comiskey (or Payday Loan Scam Park or whatever the fuck) and Wrigley have a TON to do with this discrepancy. Each is an extreme example of how the neighborhood can facilitate or impede attendance.

 

Plus, Wrigley is a cathedral and Guarantee Rape Field is a toilet.

[rok]

I remember when Lakeview was a shithole and Bridgeport was just another middle class neighborhood. Nowadays they are both gentrified areas, so I'm still blaming Sox fans for simply being terrible and not attending games.

[Butcher]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Butcher" data-cid="327760" data-time="1517007119">
Let's take a look at 2005: The White Sox were 17th in attendance *the year they won the fucking World Series.* And the Cubs? 6th. In a year they won 79 games, finished 4th in their division, and Neifi Perez was their starting shortstop the Cubs were 11 slots higher in attendance than the White Sox in their World Series winning season. So maybe there's a legitimate reason they're treated like an afterthought in Chicago?

 

Understand that I still am down on the White Sox in general and certainly on Harrelson is particular. But the locations of Comiskey (or Payday Loan Scam Park or whatever the fuck) and Wrigley have a TON to do with this discrepancy. Each is an extreme example of how the neighborhood can facilitate or impede attendance.

 

Plus, Wrigley is a cathedral and Guarantee Rape Field is a toilet.</blockquote>
Either that or White Sox fans just suck. How are you bottom half in attendance the year you win the World Series? I dont care where your stadium is. That is pathetic.

[VanSlawAndCottoCheese]

I remember when Lakeview was a shithole and Bridgeport was just another middle class neighborhood. Nowadays they are both gentrified areas, so I'm still blaming Sox fans for simply being terrible and not attending games.

 

I've heard this before, and I've seen no evidence of it. In fact, I remember the contrary. Wrigley has been portrayed as the safer stadium to visit my whole life.

 

The truth is there is a gulf of difference in terms of money, neighborhood, and racial tension between the two neighborhoods. I truly think most people who come from north of Madison Avenue simply aren't aware of the scope of the difference. 

[rok]

Bridgeport has always been pretty safe. Bronzeville and other nearby southside neighborhoods, not so much. Lakeview and the Southport area were dumps until the mid-80s. The Cubs helped the area gentrify. That has never been disputed.