01-06-2010, 06:43 PM
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->It's impossible to determine whether Sisco would have panned out with the Cubs if he was allowed to stick around in the minors and wasn't forced to the big leagues.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But it's NOT impossible. Sisco and Veal, in a large part, were given up on by the Cubs. They WEREN'T going to make it with them. Sisco was supposedly lazy, and Veal couldn't find the strike zone. It's certainly possible that the Pirates figured out what was wrong with Veal, and he will be effective from here on out (and if that is the case, someone IS to blame, but it's not Hendry), but the one thing we do know is that these guys weren't likely to be effective with the Cubs.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Why did we not have a spot for him?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because he was BAD. For right or wrong, the Cubs felt that a veteran like Gathright was more likely to help them than Pie was. They were trying to win the World Series. The Orioles were not. The Orioles could afford the luxury of bringing Pie along. The Cubs could not.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->How many chances did Hendry have to trade him as part of a deal for an established player?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no idea. How in God's name do you?
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->How does the overall budget have to do with overpaying individual players during negotiations?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This can't possibly be a serious question. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. I'll be short. There is a VAST difference between ownership saying "spend whatever you need to spend in order to win" and them saying "We are cutting your budget". As Cherp and I have pointed out on other threads, the almighty GM of the Red Sox overpays for people ALL THE TIME. Because he can. However, he hasn't had the rug subsequently pulled out from under him later.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->As for the individual contracts, Zambrano has been overpaid in every year of his contract if you look at WAR. In '08 he was paid $5.7MM per win.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Possibly, but he was UNDERPAID according to the market, when he signed. He signed for less than he would have got on the open market. And WAR aside, the market is the only thing that matters.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Soriano earned his contract in his first year, came close last year, and with his diminishing skills will likely not earn the $18MM/year paid to him for the next 6 years. His contract is an albatross and will hurt the Cubs for years. Kerry Wood's most recent contract with the club was an overpayment considering there was no market for him after his injury. Fukudome is about as valuable as Marlon Byrd (based on WAR) but nobody would want Marlon Byrd on that contract.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soriano is overpaid. everyone on the planet knows this, INCLUDING Hendry. And he knew it at the time. However, he did it because he could.
As for the rest of this, you don't see how dishonest your arguments are? You bring up WAR for Zambrano, but you ignore it for Wood because Wood was FAR more valuable than his contract. Fukdome has actually played pretty much in line with his contract according to WAR, but instead of bringing it up, you compare him to another player. You keep changing the argument to suit your point.
I'll have to get back to this later.
But it's NOT impossible. Sisco and Veal, in a large part, were given up on by the Cubs. They WEREN'T going to make it with them. Sisco was supposedly lazy, and Veal couldn't find the strike zone. It's certainly possible that the Pirates figured out what was wrong with Veal, and he will be effective from here on out (and if that is the case, someone IS to blame, but it's not Hendry), but the one thing we do know is that these guys weren't likely to be effective with the Cubs.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Why did we not have a spot for him?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
because he was BAD. For right or wrong, the Cubs felt that a veteran like Gathright was more likely to help them than Pie was. They were trying to win the World Series. The Orioles were not. The Orioles could afford the luxury of bringing Pie along. The Cubs could not.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->How many chances did Hendry have to trade him as part of a deal for an established player?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have no idea. How in God's name do you?
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->How does the overall budget have to do with overpaying individual players during negotiations?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This can't possibly be a serious question. I can't believe I have to explain this to you. I'll be short. There is a VAST difference between ownership saying "spend whatever you need to spend in order to win" and them saying "We are cutting your budget". As Cherp and I have pointed out on other threads, the almighty GM of the Red Sox overpays for people ALL THE TIME. Because he can. However, he hasn't had the rug subsequently pulled out from under him later.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->As for the individual contracts, Zambrano has been overpaid in every year of his contract if you look at WAR. In '08 he was paid $5.7MM per win.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Possibly, but he was UNDERPAID according to the market, when he signed. He signed for less than he would have got on the open market. And WAR aside, the market is the only thing that matters.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Soriano earned his contract in his first year, came close last year, and with his diminishing skills will likely not earn the $18MM/year paid to him for the next 6 years. His contract is an albatross and will hurt the Cubs for years. Kerry Wood's most recent contract with the club was an overpayment considering there was no market for him after his injury. Fukudome is about as valuable as Marlon Byrd (based on WAR) but nobody would want Marlon Byrd on that contract.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soriano is overpaid. everyone on the planet knows this, INCLUDING Hendry. And he knew it at the time. However, he did it because he could.
As for the rest of this, you don't see how dishonest your arguments are? You bring up WAR for Zambrano, but you ignore it for Wood because Wood was FAR more valuable than his contract. Fukdome has actually played pretty much in line with his contract according to WAR, but instead of bringing it up, you compare him to another player. You keep changing the argument to suit your point.
I'll have to get back to this later.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.