08-21-2009, 07:21 PM
<!--quoteo(post=59407:date=Aug 21 2009, 04:48 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 21 2009, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59405:date=Aug 21 2009, 05:45 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Aug 21 2009, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59402:date=Aug 21 2009, 04:24 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 21 2009, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59399:date=Aug 21 2009, 05:18 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Aug 21 2009, 05:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59398:date=Aug 21 2009, 04:05 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 21 2009, 04:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59396:date=Aug 21 2009, 04:54 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Aug 21 2009, 04:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Why the hell would we trade Lee and Lilly? This is a 90+ win team that had every freaking thing go wrong this year. Go back at it with mostly the same group next year. Christ, look at our record when just Aramis plays even. Honestly, it's a minor miracle that we're over .500 with 85% of the team playing either below career averages(some well below: Soriano) or missing a lot of time with injuries.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if I could stomach bringing back the same team for another try next season.
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So you want to just trade Lilly, Lee, and company for blah prospects? They have 1 year left on their deals, we're not going to get much for either of them. Where's that going to get us? This team is built to win now still, you don't blow it up. Whenever you have a team that's on paper very capable of winning a championship, you take your shot. ESPECIALLY when you haven't won in over 100 years.
If we had a Roy Halladay and had a mediocre or worse team on paper, then you deal the guy for a boatload of prospects. We don't have a player like that who is going to bring much in return anyway.
It's all just fantasyland. You guys are nuts if you think there's ANY chance of such a thing happening. It's a new ownership coming in and their first year on the job is the most important. <b>They have to show the fans they are committed to winning or they're going to get trashed immediately. </b>You have thousands of season ticket holders and fans around the world to please. A roster filled with a few very good players and a bunch of AAA players isn't going to do that.
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I don't want to trade just Lee and Lilly. I want to trade everyone. Z, Ramirez, Soto, Fukudome, etc. Everyone.
Burning it down and rebuilding from top to bottom would show me that they are committed to winning. Anything else is putting a band-aid on an axe wound.
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These things don't happen in professional sports. And trade like Soto? Seriously? Why the hell? Good luck finding a better young catcher than him.
Bradley, Soriano, and Soto will be much, much better next year. Book it.
And this team has a 94-win pace when Aramis Ramirez plays. Just saying.
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I'm just not feeling it with this group anymore, Clapp. Maybe I'm just bummed right now because the season is pretty much over...but I don't see it happening with this core. 2008 should have been the year.
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Nobody's feeling it right now, trust me, I'm right there with you. But really, look where this team would be if players just play to their career averages and we don't have injuries left and right. Injuries happen, but they shouldn't be happening like they have to us and the Mets for example. And like us, the Mets shouldn't blow up their team either.
The only player I'd actually want to trade is Soriano, but that's not happening. And yes, he's very worth that 4/20 talk. He's the streakiest player in the game and this year he's just had more cold streaks than usual. He'll put up an .850+ OPS next year, unless he's now just a headcase which I don't think. He's cocky and doesn't care what anybody thinks in my opinion. That's why he swings for the fence every time.
Anyway, things I'd like to do...
Look into trading for a shortstop or signing a Jack Wilson. Light hitter for sure, but fine in the #8 hole and improves us defensively. Then move Theriot to 2nd base, if he can still play there well.
If you don't do that, sign Orlando Hudson, leave Theriot at SS. You're at least greatly improving one spot in the middle infield, and getting a solid bat that would be ideal in the #2 spot. He's had an OBP over .360 the last 3 years. You know what you're getting with him for sure every year. And after seeing this year, I'd LOVE some reliability. Plus, he signed this past offseason for just $3.38 million. His .795 OPS is the lowest he's had in in the last 4 years, and he'll be 32 when the season starts, so he shouldn't be much more expensive than he was for this year.
See what Jose Valverde costs. We haven't had a reliable closer like him, well, in a long time. I hate throwing that much money at a reliever, but our record would be quite a bit better if we had people holding the lead in the 8th and 9th innings. Anyway, who knows, maybe his price won't be too ridiculous considering most competitive teams are set at closer, and with the economy. He owns us unlike any pitcher in baseball, so if anything, I'd just be glad we don't have to face him anymore.
Unless they think the injury is the main reason for his struggles and that he'll be what he's been the last few years, eat Aaron Miles' $2.7 million. If not, just please keep him as a 25th man and nothing more.
Keep Jeff Baker. He's even hitting better than I thought he would, but he's basically a poor man's DeRosa. He's a valuable utility guy. He can play all but SS in the infield and hit enough.
And lastly, this one is probably nuts, but if we have more money to spend... just give JP a call and see what it takes to get Halladay. A real ace is something we could really use, especially with the Cards having Wainwright for a long time and Carpenter for a bit more. I'm a Carlos Zambrano fan, and I love the rest of our rotation, but there's no denying those 2 are going to be favored against us in any matchup. With a solid year in our farm system that really rose the value of some of our prospects, we might be able to have something that fits what the Blue Jays are looking for. Hell, even like Gorzelanny looks pretty damn valuable now. They'll have to settle for one very good prospect less than they would've gotten this past trade deadline too.
I don't know if I could stomach bringing back the same team for another try next season.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you want to just trade Lilly, Lee, and company for blah prospects? They have 1 year left on their deals, we're not going to get much for either of them. Where's that going to get us? This team is built to win now still, you don't blow it up. Whenever you have a team that's on paper very capable of winning a championship, you take your shot. ESPECIALLY when you haven't won in over 100 years.
If we had a Roy Halladay and had a mediocre or worse team on paper, then you deal the guy for a boatload of prospects. We don't have a player like that who is going to bring much in return anyway.
It's all just fantasyland. You guys are nuts if you think there's ANY chance of such a thing happening. It's a new ownership coming in and their first year on the job is the most important. <b>They have to show the fans they are committed to winning or they're going to get trashed immediately. </b>You have thousands of season ticket holders and fans around the world to please. A roster filled with a few very good players and a bunch of AAA players isn't going to do that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't want to trade just Lee and Lilly. I want to trade everyone. Z, Ramirez, Soto, Fukudome, etc. Everyone.
Burning it down and rebuilding from top to bottom would show me that they are committed to winning. Anything else is putting a band-aid on an axe wound.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These things don't happen in professional sports. And trade like Soto? Seriously? Why the hell? Good luck finding a better young catcher than him.
Bradley, Soriano, and Soto will be much, much better next year. Book it.
And this team has a 94-win pace when Aramis Ramirez plays. Just saying.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm just not feeling it with this group anymore, Clapp. Maybe I'm just bummed right now because the season is pretty much over...but I don't see it happening with this core. 2008 should have been the year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody's feeling it right now, trust me, I'm right there with you. But really, look where this team would be if players just play to their career averages and we don't have injuries left and right. Injuries happen, but they shouldn't be happening like they have to us and the Mets for example. And like us, the Mets shouldn't blow up their team either.
The only player I'd actually want to trade is Soriano, but that's not happening. And yes, he's very worth that 4/20 talk. He's the streakiest player in the game and this year he's just had more cold streaks than usual. He'll put up an .850+ OPS next year, unless he's now just a headcase which I don't think. He's cocky and doesn't care what anybody thinks in my opinion. That's why he swings for the fence every time.
Anyway, things I'd like to do...
Look into trading for a shortstop or signing a Jack Wilson. Light hitter for sure, but fine in the #8 hole and improves us defensively. Then move Theriot to 2nd base, if he can still play there well.
If you don't do that, sign Orlando Hudson, leave Theriot at SS. You're at least greatly improving one spot in the middle infield, and getting a solid bat that would be ideal in the #2 spot. He's had an OBP over .360 the last 3 years. You know what you're getting with him for sure every year. And after seeing this year, I'd LOVE some reliability. Plus, he signed this past offseason for just $3.38 million. His .795 OPS is the lowest he's had in in the last 4 years, and he'll be 32 when the season starts, so he shouldn't be much more expensive than he was for this year.
See what Jose Valverde costs. We haven't had a reliable closer like him, well, in a long time. I hate throwing that much money at a reliever, but our record would be quite a bit better if we had people holding the lead in the 8th and 9th innings. Anyway, who knows, maybe his price won't be too ridiculous considering most competitive teams are set at closer, and with the economy. He owns us unlike any pitcher in baseball, so if anything, I'd just be glad we don't have to face him anymore.
Unless they think the injury is the main reason for his struggles and that he'll be what he's been the last few years, eat Aaron Miles' $2.7 million. If not, just please keep him as a 25th man and nothing more.
Keep Jeff Baker. He's even hitting better than I thought he would, but he's basically a poor man's DeRosa. He's a valuable utility guy. He can play all but SS in the infield and hit enough.
And lastly, this one is probably nuts, but if we have more money to spend... just give JP a call and see what it takes to get Halladay. A real ace is something we could really use, especially with the Cards having Wainwright for a long time and Carpenter for a bit more. I'm a Carlos Zambrano fan, and I love the rest of our rotation, but there's no denying those 2 are going to be favored against us in any matchup. With a solid year in our farm system that really rose the value of some of our prospects, we might be able to have something that fits what the Blue Jays are looking for. Hell, even like Gorzelanny looks pretty damn valuable now. They'll have to settle for one very good prospect less than they would've gotten this past trade deadline too.
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