02-11-2009, 11:07 AM
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->After living through 8 years of Bush explaining that if we don't elect him/invade Iraq/let him listen to our phone conversations/lock people up indefinitely/lock people up without trial/torture people/ etc etc/ then we are ALL GOING TO DIE, I find it hard to believe that someone is going to accuse the evil Liberals of having a fear based agenda.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think his point was along the lines that Obama resorted to fear tactics to get his stimulus passed, which is a fair thing for him to say. Things went from, "we must pass this bill to help free up lending in our economy" to "OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYONE'S GONNA BE BROKE AND THINGS ARE GOING TO BE WORSE THAN THEY WERE IN THE DEPRESSION IF WE DON'T PASS THIS BILL RIGHT NOW!$#!$#@!", and this happened almost overnight when members of congress, including some Democrats, balked at his original bill, which wasn't even his, it was Pelosi's.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->The fact is we haven't come close to reaching the bottom yet, so if we haven't reached the level of the 1980's recession, it's only a matter of time. The idea that things were MUCH worse in the 80's is laughable. I suppose it's possible we could pull out of this before things get as bad as the 80's, but I've yet to hear ONE sensible economist who believes that.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, and I agree with this, however, I don't agree with listening to economists who just a year ago were telling us to buy homes and that the housing market was stable. Most of them, anyway. Some were spot on, but in either case, both sides were merely guessing.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->NO, that's not what he said. In fact, it's nowhere close to what he said. He said "tax cuts alone can't solve all of our economic problems". That's a reasonable statement. And it's pretty much supported by most economists.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->2. It IS a very FUCKING SCARY time. Obama has every right to be trying to scare us.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think people are scared enough without our leaders scaring them even more. Citizens tend to get disorderly and afraid of the unknown, leaders are the ones who calm them. Obama doesn't need to be tossing gas cans on that fire right now.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->3. If the stimulus isn't passed, and passed soon, things will get much worse. THAT is why he is scaring us. Waiting does us no good.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fell for that once, too. As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Bush used that same argument on the first stimulus and I still don't feel very...stimulated. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] The fact is, nobody knows what will happen with or without this stimulus.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->4. The Republicans don't know their heads from their asses on this particular subject. If we listen to John McCain, he will make the stimulus smaller, which by definition, would provide less stimulus, and he would make it with more tax cuts, which any economist will tell you is about the most inefficient way possible to stimulate the economy. Listening to them is a spectacularly bad idea.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think either party knows their heads from their asses on this particular subject. I get the feeling they're running around a baseball diamond on a stormy day while holding a coke bottle in the air...you know, to catch lightning in it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
You do make some good points, though!
I think his point was along the lines that Obama resorted to fear tactics to get his stimulus passed, which is a fair thing for him to say. Things went from, "we must pass this bill to help free up lending in our economy" to "OH MY GOD THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYONE'S GONNA BE BROKE AND THINGS ARE GOING TO BE WORSE THAN THEY WERE IN THE DEPRESSION IF WE DON'T PASS THIS BILL RIGHT NOW!$#!$#@!", and this happened almost overnight when members of congress, including some Democrats, balked at his original bill, which wasn't even his, it was Pelosi's.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->The fact is we haven't come close to reaching the bottom yet, so if we haven't reached the level of the 1980's recession, it's only a matter of time. The idea that things were MUCH worse in the 80's is laughable. I suppose it's possible we could pull out of this before things get as bad as the 80's, but I've yet to hear ONE sensible economist who believes that.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough, and I agree with this, however, I don't agree with listening to economists who just a year ago were telling us to buy homes and that the housing market was stable. Most of them, anyway. Some were spot on, but in either case, both sides were merely guessing.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->NO, that's not what he said. In fact, it's nowhere close to what he said. He said "tax cuts alone can't solve all of our economic problems". That's a reasonable statement. And it's pretty much supported by most economists.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->2. It IS a very FUCKING SCARY time. Obama has every right to be trying to scare us.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think people are scared enough without our leaders scaring them even more. Citizens tend to get disorderly and afraid of the unknown, leaders are the ones who calm them. Obama doesn't need to be tossing gas cans on that fire right now.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->3. If the stimulus isn't passed, and passed soon, things will get much worse. THAT is why he is scaring us. Waiting does us no good.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I fell for that once, too. As the saying goes, fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Bush used that same argument on the first stimulus and I still don't feel very...stimulated. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif[/img] The fact is, nobody knows what will happen with or without this stimulus.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->4. The Republicans don't know their heads from their asses on this particular subject. If we listen to John McCain, he will make the stimulus smaller, which by definition, would provide less stimulus, and he would make it with more tax cuts, which any economist will tell you is about the most inefficient way possible to stimulate the economy. Listening to them is a spectacularly bad idea.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think either party knows their heads from their asses on this particular subject. I get the feeling they're running around a baseball diamond on a stormy day while holding a coke bottle in the air...you know, to catch lightning in it. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
You do make some good points, though!