12-20-2010, 01:19 PM
<!--quoteo(post=123982:date=Dec 20 2010, 11:04 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 20 2010, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=123981:date=Dec 20 2010, 10:58 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 20 2010, 10:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=123976:date=Dec 20 2010, 10:32 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 20 2010, 10:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=123950:date=Dec 19 2010, 06:56 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 19 2010, 06:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=123947:date=Dec 19 2010, 07:30 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 19 2010, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wow. The Brewers gave up jack shit to get him. We could have easily beat that deal. And I'd much rather have Greinke than Garza (if we're still looking to make that deal).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know about that - I think if the deal was for equivalent Cubs prospects (guys we know and have come to appreciate), we'd think it was a lot.
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From Crasnick:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Kansas City's trade package for Greinke and shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt looks more like Mark Teixeira Lite. Moore got a shortstop (Alcides Escobar) who posted a .288 on base percentage last season, and a center fielder (Lorenzo Cain) with some ability, but no amazing, off-the-charts tool. He landed a young pitcher (Jake Odorizzi) who has lots of promise but spent 2010 in the Class A Midwest League, and another pitcher (former first-round draft pick Jeremy Jeffress) who served two suspensions for marijuana use in the minor leagues.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless Crasnick's analysis is wrong, it doesn't seem like the Brewers gave up all that much.
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It's not so much wrong, as everything he said is factual, but it's certainly slanted. I don't like Escobar much, but he was a top 10 prospect before last year, is only 23, and may have had some back luck BABIP-wise. He also can steal quite a few bases if he ever gets on base with any regularity.
Odorizzi did pitch in Class A, but he was outstanding there. It's like saying Hak-Ju Lee isn't a prospect because he did everything at the A level.
Jeffres is the real deal too. If he is done smoking pot, he could be a stud. But he's running out of time to prove that.
Regardless, it's not easy to get a starting CF, a starting SS (neither of which should embarass themselves, even if they don't become superstars), a top notch pitching prospect and a hugely talented (even if he is behaviorally stunted) pitcher, in any sort of deal. A comparable deal for the Cubs would start with McNutt and Lee, and 2 or 3 non-throw ins as well.
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Have we fallen so in love with our prospects that we can't deal them for a 27-year-old Cy Young winner? Prospects are just prospects -- McNutt and Lee might not even see the majors for all we know. I know -- you can't empty the farm for every player or you won't have anyone left to deal...but are we going to pass on all of the Greinkes and Gonzalezes of the world because we're too eager to hang on to our beloved prospects?
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Again, this board was almost unanimous that we should trade Castro for Peavy.
Not every deal would look that bad in retrospect, but as much as I believe prospects are prospects until they prove their worth, I still think there is a limit to what you should give up. Giving up 4 great prospects for the honor of signing AGonz to a 160 million dollar deal sounds like a bad investment to me. Giving up a Cy Young's worth of prospects for a pitcher that has only pitched like a Cy Young once could be a bad investment. I could be convinced Grienke's worth it, and my guess is he will be better in the NL, but I can also be convinced that gutting our minor leagues for him would be a mistake.
I don't know about that - I think if the deal was for equivalent Cubs prospects (guys we know and have come to appreciate), we'd think it was a lot.
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From Crasnick:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Kansas City's trade package for Greinke and shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt looks more like Mark Teixeira Lite. Moore got a shortstop (Alcides Escobar) who posted a .288 on base percentage last season, and a center fielder (Lorenzo Cain) with some ability, but no amazing, off-the-charts tool. He landed a young pitcher (Jake Odorizzi) who has lots of promise but spent 2010 in the Class A Midwest League, and another pitcher (former first-round draft pick Jeremy Jeffress) who served two suspensions for marijuana use in the minor leagues.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unless Crasnick's analysis is wrong, it doesn't seem like the Brewers gave up all that much.
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It's not so much wrong, as everything he said is factual, but it's certainly slanted. I don't like Escobar much, but he was a top 10 prospect before last year, is only 23, and may have had some back luck BABIP-wise. He also can steal quite a few bases if he ever gets on base with any regularity.
Odorizzi did pitch in Class A, but he was outstanding there. It's like saying Hak-Ju Lee isn't a prospect because he did everything at the A level.
Jeffres is the real deal too. If he is done smoking pot, he could be a stud. But he's running out of time to prove that.
Regardless, it's not easy to get a starting CF, a starting SS (neither of which should embarass themselves, even if they don't become superstars), a top notch pitching prospect and a hugely talented (even if he is behaviorally stunted) pitcher, in any sort of deal. A comparable deal for the Cubs would start with McNutt and Lee, and 2 or 3 non-throw ins as well.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have we fallen so in love with our prospects that we can't deal them for a 27-year-old Cy Young winner? Prospects are just prospects -- McNutt and Lee might not even see the majors for all we know. I know -- you can't empty the farm for every player or you won't have anyone left to deal...but are we going to pass on all of the Greinkes and Gonzalezes of the world because we're too eager to hang on to our beloved prospects?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, this board was almost unanimous that we should trade Castro for Peavy.
Not every deal would look that bad in retrospect, but as much as I believe prospects are prospects until they prove their worth, I still think there is a limit to what you should give up. Giving up 4 great prospects for the honor of signing AGonz to a 160 million dollar deal sounds like a bad investment to me. Giving up a Cy Young's worth of prospects for a pitcher that has only pitched like a Cy Young once could be a bad investment. I could be convinced Grienke's worth it, and my guess is he will be better in the NL, but I can also be convinced that gutting our minor leagues for him would be a mistake.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.