Posts: 2,647
Threads: 75
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=88527:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:13 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 13 2010, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88526:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88509:date=Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cashner should be in the pen wherever he pitches.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There isn't much doubt in my mind, that is where he is going to end up. The reason he was a 1st round pick was because he was dominant throwing 100 mph out of the pen. He can either be a mediocre starter or a potential dominant late inning reliever.
At his age, I don't have a problem with him being tried as a starter though. You never know maybe he will surprise us.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He could be a phenominal starter. He struck out 10 in 4.1 innings in his first start of the year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So then he could be the second coming of Rich Harden and Max Scherzer? I'd rather have him in the pen if that's the case.
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=88528:date=Apr 13 2010, 10:21 AM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Apr 13 2010, 10:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88527:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:13 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 13 2010, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88526:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88509:date=Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cashner should be in the pen wherever he pitches.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There isn't much doubt in my mind, that is where he is going to end up. The reason he was a 1st round pick was because he was dominant throwing 100 mph out of the pen. He can either be a mediocre starter or a potential dominant late inning reliever.
At his age, I don't have a problem with him being tried as a starter though. You never know maybe he will surprise us.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He could be a phenominal starter. He struck out 10 in 4.1 innings in his first start of the year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So then he could be the second coming of Rich Harden and Max Scherzer? I'd rather have him in the pen if that's the case.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is that? Because he only went 4.1 innings?
They have been using kid gloves on Cashner since last year while trying to build his endurance. They've been holding him to very strict pitch counts. He only threw 80 pitches in that game.
Posts: 2,100
Threads: 41
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=88527:date=Apr 13 2010, 11:13 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 13 2010, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88526:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88509:date=Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cashner should be in the pen wherever he pitches.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There isn't much doubt in my mind, that is where he is going to end up. The reason he was a 1st round pick was because he was dominant throwing 100 mph out of the pen. He can either be a mediocre starter or a potential dominant late inning reliever.
At his age, I don't have a problem with him being tried as a starter though. You never know maybe he will surprise us.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He could be a phenominal starter. He struck out 10 in 4.1 innings in his first start of the year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True.
He left in the 5th after walking 2 and giving up a 3 Run HR.
Here's a blog on this topic
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=88530:date=Apr 13 2010, 10:28 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88527:date=Apr 13 2010, 11:13 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 13 2010, 11:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88526:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM:name=Fella)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88509:date=Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cashner should be in the pen wherever he pitches.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There isn't much doubt in my mind, that is where he is going to end up. The reason he was a 1st round pick was because he was dominant throwing 100 mph out of the pen. He can either be a mediocre starter or a potential dominant late inning reliever.
At his age, I don't have a problem with him being tried as a starter though. You never know maybe he will surprise us.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He could be a phenominal starter. He struck out 10 in 4.1 innings in his first start of the year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True.
He left in the 5th after walking 2 and giving up a 3 Run HR.
Here's a blog on this topic
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations to that guy. He just discovered a trend that has been going on since baseball was invented!
Pitchers strike out less guys as the game goes on. This shouldn't be a secret to anyone. Even a dominant power pitcher like Lincecum strikes out 2 less per 9 innings in the 5th inning compared to the 1st. Add to the fact that the 4th and 5th inning stats are extremely limited seeing as he only averaged 4 innings per start last year because of the pitch counts I just referred to. Also, most of those 4th and 5th inning numbers are almost guaranteed to be at the end of his first full year starting and I don't think it's a surprise at all that his trends are like that.
Give the guy this year to prove if he can start or not. If he's struggling by late July or August, call him a reliever and run with it. I don't think I need to explain how much more valuable a starter is compared to a reliever.
Posts: 7,162
Threads: 138
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
Isn't Cashner mainly just a fastball-slider pitcher, or at least those are his only pitches that are any good? That's what I've heard in the past and that's pretty much what it looked like to me watching him this spring. If so, it's going to be tough to be a really effective starter that way, but like others have said, he could be a dominant reliever throwing 97+ with a slider to go with it.
@TheBlogfines
Posts: 14,130
Threads: 90
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
For how long has the organization been trying to stretch him out though? What I'm asking is how long does it usually take to stretch out a reliever to be a starter. Seems like it's taking a long time for Cashner to get adjusted, unless I'm missing something. Is he trying to develop another pitch or what could be causing the organization to be overly cautious with him?
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=88537:date=Apr 13 2010, 11:29 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 13 2010, 11:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->For how long has the organization been trying to stretch him out though? What I'm asking is how long does it usually take to stretch out a reliever to be a starter. Seems like it's taking a long time for Cashner to get adjusted, unless I'm missing something. Is he trying to develop another pitch or what could be causing the organization to be overly cautious with him?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They only started stretching him out at the beginning of last season and he got a late start due to a strained oblique, so he didn't even get in to games till almost May last year. How long does it take to stretch out a reliever? I have no idea, it's not very common. I can't think of a pitcher off the top of my head who was a dominant reliever in college and transitioned to a starter. My guess is it takes a while given the pitcher actually has to elevate his pitch count while learning to get guys out multiple times.
Clapp, as for his pitches, Cashner has a "solid change" according to BA. He's been working on it since he was drafted and Cubs officials seem to be very confident in it.
Posts: 2,100
Threads: 41
Joined: Jan 2009
Reputation:
0
Yeah, let's keep delaying the inevitable on a guy that when drafted was thought to possibly be MLB bullpen ready <i>that year</i>.
As CC said earlier, I cant wait to see those Harden type starts for the club in 2012!
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=88545:date=Apr 13 2010, 12:06 PM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, let's keep delaying the inevitable on a guy that when drafted was thought to possibly be MLB bullpen ready <i>that year</i>.
As CC said earlier, I cant wait to see those Harden type starts for the club in 2012!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, we're just going to make wild comparisons based on nothing? I haven't had an explanation on why Cashner = Hardin yet. He's not injury prone. He doesn't throw too many pitches per inning. What is it exactly?
Posts: 2,647
Threads: 75
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=88548:date=Apr 13 2010, 11:08 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 13 2010, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88545:date=Apr 13 2010, 12:06 PM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, let's keep delaying the inevitable on a guy that when drafted was thought to possibly be MLB bullpen ready <i>that year</i>.
As CC said earlier, I cant wait to see those Harden type starts for the club in 2012!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, we're just going to make wild comparisons based on nothing? I haven't had an explanation on why Cashner = Hardin yet. He's not injury prone. He doesn't throw too many pitches per inning. What is it exactly?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
31 games started in his 3 year minor league career and a whopping 124.2 innings pitched. I don't care how many strikeouts he got in 4 innings the other day, it's an incredible stretch to think that he can be a starter in a couple of years.
Posts: 2,696
Threads: 47
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=88552:date=Apr 13 2010, 12:29 PM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Apr 13 2010, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88548:date=Apr 13 2010, 11:08 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 13 2010, 11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88545:date=Apr 13 2010, 12:06 PM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 12:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, let's keep delaying the inevitable on a guy that when drafted was thought to possibly be MLB bullpen ready <i>that year</i>.
As CC said earlier, I cant wait to see those Harden type starts for the club in 2012!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, we're just going to make wild comparisons based on nothing? I haven't had an explanation on why Cashner = Hardin yet. He's not injury prone. He doesn't throw too many pitches per inning. What is it exactly?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
31 games started in his 3 year minor league career and a whopping 124.2 innings pitched. I don't care how many strikeouts he got in 4 innings the other day, it's an incredible stretch to think that he can be a starter in a couple of years.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And to think that's the extent of his endurance is being ignorant. I have a feeling you're purposely ignoring the fact that he's barely been starting more than a year just to prove your original point that he's "the second coming of Rich Hardin and Max Scherzer".
I'm hoping by next month they'll let him extend to 90-100 pitches and see how he does. When he does that a mutiple times, I think you can start to question whether he'll be able to start or not.
Posts: 7,162
Threads: 138
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
Cashner's throwing a no-no through 5 with 9 K. Only baserunner allowed was on an error.
@TheBlogfines
Posts: 1,407
Threads: 18
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
Cashner through 6, no hitter still intact, 10 Ks. He has thrown 85 pitches, wonder if he is done.
Posts: 62
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2008
Reputation:
0
If Cashner is capable of getting hitters out, he should be here pitching in the 7th-8th innings for us for the next 3 weeks. We've seen Caridad go down with an injury, we've seen a fair amount of ineffectiveness from our guys not named Marmol, Marshall, and Russell. With our offense the way it's been hot/cold, we need someone to get hitters out in the 7th to 8th innings. Personally, I don't care if he projects as the next Rich Harden or the next Nolan Ryan or the next Lee Smith. If he can get MLB hitters out for an inning at a time, we need him in Wrigley. Period. Samardjiza hasn't cut it and should be working of developing a consistent 3rd pitch in AAA, not while facing the likes of Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, or Prince Feilder with 2 on and nobody out. I hope Cashner gets a call sooner than later.
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." Albert Einstein
Posts: 2,911
Threads: 67
Joined: Nov 2008
Reputation:
0
<!--quoteo(post=89304:date=Apr 15 2010, 06:25 AM:name=mindbodyspirit)-->QUOTE (mindbodyspirit @ Apr 15 2010, 06:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Cashner is capable of getting hitters out, he should be here pitching in the 7th-8th innings for us for the next 3 weeks. We've seen Caridad go down with an injury, we've seen a fair amount of ineffectiveness from our guys not named Marmol, Marshall, and Russell. With our offense the way it's been hot/cold, we need someone to get hitters out in the 7th to 8th innings. Personally, I don't care if he projects as the next Rich Harden or the next Nolan Ryan or the next Lee Smith. If he can get MLB hitters out for an inning at a time, we need him in Wrigley. Period. Samardjiza hasn't cut it and should be working of developing a consistent 3rd pitch in AAA, not while facing the likes of Ryan Howard, Manny Ramirez, or Prince Feilder with 2 on and nobody out. I hope Cashner gets a call sooner than later.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with all of this except for "Samardjiza hasn't cut it and should be working of developing a consistent 3rd pitch in AAA." Samardzija should be working on getting ready for the NFL season. He is not and will never be a major league quality pitcher. If they want to try and salvage his career, put him in the bullpen in Iowa and see if he can regain his stuff from 2008. He doesn't have the talent to be a starter and has never been successful as one at any point during his pro career. Seems to me the Cubs are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole because we paid him so much money.
|
