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I'm with Scarey as far as Cashner goes. I don't think we'll have to "strike gold" or anything...
he seems to already be an excellent pitcher. He was a 1st round draft pick, he pitched very well in college, scouts rave about him, every team that discusses a trade with the Cubs asks for him...does anyone really think he's gonna fail?
Plus, isn't he a real hard-thrower? Those type of guys tend to make the transition to MLB more smoothly than off-speed pitchers.
Shark down, Cashner up. Would anyone object?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=88395:date=Apr 12 2010, 03:12 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 12 2010, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm with Scarey as far as Cashner goes. I don't think we'll have to "strike gold" or anything...
he seems to already be an excellent pitcher. He was a 1st round draft pick, he pitched very well in college, scouts rave about him, every team that discusses a trade with the Cubs asks for him...does anyone really think he's gonna fail?
Plus, isn't he a real hard-thrower? Those type of guys tend to make the transition to MLB more smoothly than off-speed pitchers.
Shark down, Cashner up. Would anyone object?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I sorta would. Cashner just went 4.1 innings in his first outting of the season and was very effective. It would be fantastic if we have a power pitcher to insert into the rotation next year. They've been building his endurance for the last year and it seems like a bit of a waste to stop now. I would be happy in the short term, but I think he needs to keep building endurance to have a shot at the rotation next year.
I'm just not sure the Cubs will have the kind of patience. They may become desperate quickly. Maybe Jeff Gray and/or Parker will come up and lock it down.
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So Dempster started the 7th with a big lead and after throwing over 100 pitches...because?
Yeah.
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I think Gray likely would have made the team out of spring training if not for his injury. After he gets some innings under his belt I think he will be the most likely canidate to replace Shark.
I've always thought of Cashner as an eventual reliever, like he was in college, but the Cubs seem intent on making him a starter. If we do bring him up to the bullpen this year, I'd like to see him transitioned into the bullpen in the minors first. If we are going to keep him as a starter then I think Parker and Gray are the smarter choices if we want to bring up new guys to the pen.
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I've always liked the old Earl Weaver strategy of introducing a kid to the majors by having him work out of the pen. Doesn't matter <i>who</i> it is.
So even if Cashner is being groomed, long-term, as a starter, I can't see how it would hurt to have him throw out of the bullpen at first. And it would definitely help the pen.
Win-win.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=88459:date=Apr 12 2010, 08:01 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 12 2010, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've always liked the old Earl Weaver strategy of introducing a kid to the majors by having him work out of the pen. Doesn't matter <i>who</i> it is.
So even if Cashner is being groomed, long-term, as a starter, I can't see how it would hurt to have him throw out of the bullpen at first. And it would definitely help the pen.
Win-win.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is Cashner still isn't at the point where he can throw 90-100 pitches regularly. If you start pitching him out of the bullpen right now, he's going to need another year to work on going into the 5th/6th/7th inning. Last year, they started him out throwing 2-3 innings at a time. His first start of this year he went 4.1 but I believe he threw a ton of pitches and got into trouble late. He may have gone 5 innings if not for that. He still needs to get experience in throwing 5+ innings at a time. On top of that, Cashner is a completely different pitcher when pitching in short relief compared to starting. He only throws two pitches and one of them is a 98mph fastball. He can't rely on that when he's starting.
In other words, I wouldn't mind Jay Jackson going to the bullpen while eventually leading to starting. He's been regularly starting since he was in college. Cashner has only been "starting" for a year.
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Cashner should be in the pen wherever he pitches.
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<!--quoteo(post=88509:date=Apr 13 2010, 07:58 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 07:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cashner should be in the pen wherever he pitches.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't understand why people seem to think this.
We have a <i>potential </i>rotation right now of Zambrano/Dempster/Lilly/Wells/Silva. I understand Gorzelanny is starting right now and may or may not be a better option than Silva, but let's just go with this for now. Also, Marshall is a viable starter, but it seems the Cubs are really relying on him as a reliever and will probably stay there.
Next year Lilly is going to be a free agent and with health problems and the fact that he's going to command a decent amount of money and is turning 35 next January, I don't know if we can rely on the Cubs resigning him. Silva will be a free agent in 2012 and Dempster and Zambrano will be free agents in 2013. Personally, I don't think any of these guys save maybe Zambrano are going to be attractive resignings. That leaves the rotations like this in the coming years.
2011: Zambrano/Dempster/Wells/Silva/Gorzelanny
2012: Zambrano/Dempster/Wells/Gorzelanny
2013: Wells/ ???/ ???/ ???/ ???
I'm looking at that 2011 rotation and am not too thrilled about it (unless Gorzelanny returns to his 2006/2007 form). Yes, we could sign starters, but the Cubs really need to try to change this open wallet spending they've painted themselves into the corner with and I think Ricketts intends to do just that.
Starting next year, the Cubs should have Jay Jackson, Casey Coleman, Andrew Cashner, and maybe Chris Carpenter ready to start in the bigs. My opinion is have as many good young arms available as possible to fill in the rotation holes to ensure that we have a better chance of filling those holes adequately. It would certainly be nice if one of those four could replace one of Silva/Gorzelanny and even better if both of those guys are taken out of the rotation for better, younger, cheaper players.
Bottom line is, 2013 will eventually come around. It will be difficult to have 3-4 free agent pitchers being paid between $7 million and $18 million dollars in the rotation.
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2012 and 2013 should be way off this team's radar.
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<!--quoteo(post=88514:date=Apr 13 2010, 08:50 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 08:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->2012 and 2013 should be way off this team's radar.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. The window is closing, and we'd better have the resources in place to compete year-in and year-out, so I'm not thinking past 1 season anymore.
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Honestly, it shouldn't. The Red Sox are already thinking of 2012 and that's why they've been successful for almost a decade. They are building and utilizing their farm system effectively while filling in the gaps with free agents. I believe that's what Ricketts is aiming for and I think it's the best way to run a consistent contender.
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<!--quoteo(post=88517:date=Apr 13 2010, 08:57 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 13 2010, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Honestly, it shouldn't. The Red Sox are already thinking of 2012 and that's why they've been successful for almost a decade. They are building and utilizing their farm system effectively while filling in the gaps with free agents. I believe that's what Ricketts is aiming for and I think it's the best way to run a consistent contender.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with having a long-term view and focusing on player development, but the way this team is built at the moment with so many large contracts, it is a tough balance. Until we start clearing some of this dead weight, it's going to be tough to plan anything more than a year or 2 out. Down the road though, it will be nice to start mixing in young positional and pitching prospects, but right now Hendry needs to worry about keeping his job past the end of the season.
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<!--quoteo(post=88520:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:10 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 13 2010, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88517:date=Apr 13 2010, 08:57 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 13 2010, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Honestly, it shouldn't. The Red Sox are already thinking of 2012 and that's why they've been successful for almost a decade. They are building and utilizing their farm system effectively while filling in the gaps with free agents. I believe that's what Ricketts is aiming for and I think it's the best way to run a consistent contender.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with having a long-term view and focusing on player development, <b>but the way this team is built at the moment with so many large contracts, it is a tough balance</b>. Until we start clearing some of this dead weight, it's going to be tough to plan anything more than a year or 2 out. Down the road though, it will be nice to start mixing in young positional and pitching prospects, but right now Hendry needs to worry about keeping his job past the end of the season.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's this reason specifically that it is completely necessary to try to fill as many spots as possible through the minors. With all the heavy contracts, it's tough to envision us signing more than 1 starting pitcher in the next 2 or 3 years. It might be tough to even sign one guy actually. That's why I'd like to see Cashner stay in the starting role until he shows he absolutely cannot handle it. He has been very promising as a starter so far.
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<!--quoteo(post=88509:date=Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cashner should be in the pen wherever he pitches.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There isn't much doubt in my mind, that is where he is going to end up. The reason he was a 1st round pick was because he was dominant throwing 100 mph out of the pen. He can either be a mediocre starter or a potential dominant late inning reliever.
At his age, I don't have a problem with him being tried as a starter though. You never know maybe he will surprise us.
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<!--quoteo(post=88526:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Apr 13 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=88509:date=Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Apr 13 2010, 06:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cashner should be in the pen wherever he pitches.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There isn't much doubt in my mind, that is where he is going to end up. The reason he was a 1st round pick was because he was dominant throwing 100 mph out of the pen. He can either be a mediocre starter or a potential dominant late inning reliever.
At his age, I don't have a problem with him being tried as a starter though. You never know maybe he will surprise us.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He could be a phenominal starter. He struck out 10 in 4.1 innings in his first start of the year.
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