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<!--quoteo(post=69309:date=Nov 16 2009, 07:16 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Nov 16 2009, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->In a perfect world, we'd just go with the same outfield, Bradley wouldn't be such a pissface, he and Soriano would hit like they can, and we'd upgrade the middle infield.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, my toughts exactly. Id rather go after someone like Orlando Hudson.
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<!--quoteo(post=69317:date=Nov 16 2009, 11:35 PM:name=AlexV)-->QUOTE (AlexV @ Nov 16 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69309:date=Nov 16 2009, 07:16 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Nov 16 2009, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->In a perfect world, we'd just go with the same outfield, Bradley wouldn't be such a pissface, he and Soriano would hit like they can, and we'd upgrade the middle infield.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, my toughts exactly. Id rather go after someone like Orlando Hudson.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to live in a perfect world.
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<!--quoteo(post=69324:date=Nov 17 2009, 11:04 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Nov 17 2009, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69317:date=Nov 16 2009, 11:35 PM:name=AlexV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlexV @ Nov 16 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69309:date=Nov 16 2009, 07:16 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Nov 16 2009, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->In a perfect world, we'd just go with the same outfield, Bradley wouldn't be such a pissface, he and Soriano would hit like they can, and we'd upgrade the middle infield.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, my toughts exactly. Id rather go after someone like Orlando Hudson.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to live in a perfect world.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are diamonds in this dog poop!!!
(query why I'm digging around in dog poop in my perfect world...)
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<!--quoteo(post=69388:date=Nov 17 2009, 08:15 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Nov 17 2009, 08:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69324:date=Nov 17 2009, 11:04 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Nov 17 2009, 11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69317:date=Nov 16 2009, 11:35 PM:name=AlexV)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AlexV @ Nov 16 2009, 11:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69309:date=Nov 16 2009, 07:16 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Nov 16 2009, 07:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->In a perfect world, we'd just go with the same outfield, Bradley wouldn't be such a pissface, he and Soriano would hit like they can, and we'd upgrade the middle infield.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, my toughts exactly. Id rather go after someone like Orlando Hudson.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to live in a perfect world.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are diamonds in this dog poop!!!
(query why I'm digging around in dog poop in my perfect world...)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
your dog ate your diamonds?
![[Image: lou.jpg]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v608/cubsbz/lou.jpg)
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Ace- I'm calling you out for the article you wrote on BN, your more recent one. Refusing to trade Castro no matter what is nuts. Trading Castro and only getting Granderson in return is nuts-er. Here's my reasoning- whether or not you think Castro is going to fill out and hit for more power (from what I've seen he looks like he's 12 and if he projects for more power the Hanley Ramirez comparisons are right on) his stock is only getting higher. He could have a crappy year at a higher level of competition and still be a valuable trading chip just because he's so young and has yet to have a bad season. Secondly, Granderson. Dude, I can't tell you how lukewarm I am on this guy. He's had four full seasons, two of which were good, two of which were mediocre. In all four seasons he struckout a shit-ton and did absolutely nothing against LH pitching (.210 career). Considering that he'll invariably be misused as a leadoff hitter and should really have a RH counterpart to platoon with- ugh. He'd be a nice complimentary piece if he were to bat 5th so if we're able to get him for lesser prospects I'm all for it. But, if the Tigers insist on Castro, thanks but no thanks. The Cubs can get more for him.
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<!--quoteo(post=69397:date=Nov 18 2009, 09:34 AM:name=Dirk)-->QUOTE (Dirk @ Nov 18 2009, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ace- I'm calling you out for the article you wrote on BN, your more recent one. Refusing to trade Castro no matter what is nuts. Trading Castro and only getting Granderson in return is nuts-er. Here's my reasoning- whether or not you think Castro is going to fill out and hit for more power (from what I've seen he looks like he's 12 and if he projects for more power the Hanley Ramirez comparisons are right on) his stock is only getting higher. He could have a crappy year at a higher level of competition and still be a valuable trading chip just because he's so young and has yet to have a bad season. Secondly, Granderson. Dude, I can't tell you how lukewarm I am on this guy. He's had four full seasons, two of which were good, two of which were mediocre. In all four seasons he struckout a shit-ton and did absolutely nothing against LH pitching (.210 career). Considering that he'll invariably be misused as a leadoff hitter and should really have a RH counterpart to platoon with- ugh. He'd be a nice complimentary piece if he were to bat 5th so if we're able to get him for lesser prospects I'm all for it. But, if the Tigers insist on Castro, thanks but no thanks. The Cubs can get more for him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well said.
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I tend to agree. I hate hanging on to prospects when you can get an All-Star in return, but Castro's value is pretty huge right now -- I want more back than Granderson, especially if we're taking on all of his salary.
Granderson hit .249/.327/.453 last season. Just for comparison's sake, Fukudome hit .259/.375/.421.
I'm not trading our best prospect for that dude.
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<!--quoteo(post=69406:date=Nov 18 2009, 09:46 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 18 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I tend to agree. I hate hanging on to prospects when you can get an All-Star in return, but Castro's value is pretty huge right now -- I want more back than Granderson, especially if we're taking on all of his salary.
Granderson hit .249/.327/.453 last season. Just for comparison's sake, Fukudome hit .259/.375/.421.
I'm not trading our best prospect for that dude.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But Phil Rogers says he is just the type of clubhouse leader that we need! And he is fast!
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<!--quoteo(post=69407:date=Nov 18 2009, 09:55 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Nov 18 2009, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=69406:date=Nov 18 2009, 09:46 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 18 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I tend to agree. I hate hanging on to prospects when you can get an All-Star in return, but Castro's value is pretty huge right now -- I want more back than Granderson, especially if we're taking on all of his salary.
Granderson hit .249/.327/.453 last season. Just for comparison's sake, Fukudome hit .259/.375/.421.
I'm not trading our best prospect for that dude.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But Phil Rogers says he is just the type of clubhouse leader that we need! And he is fast!
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I wouldn't do for a real sportswriter in this town.
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<!--quoteo(post=69406:date=Nov 18 2009, 09:46 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 18 2009, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I tend to agree. I hate hanging on to prospects when you can get an All-Star in return, but Castro's value is pretty huge right now -- I want more back than Granderson, especially if we're taking on all of his salary.
Granderson hit .249/.327/.453 last season. Just for comparison's sake, Fukudome hit .259/.375/.421.
I'm not trading our best prospect for that dude.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I gotta agree with you Butch. Granderson is a solid player but it seems crazy that people think we should give a massive group of quality prospects for him. I just don't think emptying our farm for Curtis Granderson is a good idea.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Cody (Mount Vernon, IA)
Would Josh Vitters, Jake Fox, and Jay Jackson be enough for the Cubs to land Curtis Granderson if he really is available? Would you do that deal if you were the Cubs?
Jim Callis
(2:12 PM)
I would think so. The Tigers have to dump salary, so I might try to hold onto Vitters and see if Detroit would take Ryan Flaherty, or hold onto Jackson and offer a lesser pitcher. But the Cubs are in win-now mode, and I think they'd bite.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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Vitters?!
OK, Butch, I am now officially in your camp; Fuck Curtis Granderson.
He's fine, nothing more, nothing less. He's basically Fuk, only he speaks English. He's a nice fellow, and he's from Chicago. Who <i>gives</i> a flying rat's ass?
If we can get him for Fox, some bullpen guys and some decent A-ball prospects, have at it, Jim and Gary.
Scariest thought: He's the ultimate Jim and Gary-type player/athlete, so prepare for him playing at Wrigley next year, and to waving goodbye to Vitters or Castro. Isn't it fun to be a Cub fan?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=69397:date=Nov 18 2009, 09:34 AM:name=Dirk)-->QUOTE (Dirk @ Nov 18 2009, 09:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Ace- I'm calling you out for the article you wrote on BN, your more recent one. Refusing to trade Castro no matter what is nuts. Trading Castro and only getting Granderson in return is nuts-er. Here's my reasoning- whether or not you think Castro is going to fill out and hit for more power (from what I've seen he looks like he's 12 and if he projects for more power the Hanley Ramirez comparisons are right on) his stock is only getting higher. He could have a crappy year at a higher level of competition and still be a valuable trading chip just because he's so young and has yet to have a bad season. Secondly, Granderson. Dude, I can't tell you how lukewarm I am on this guy. He's had four full seasons, two of which were good, two of which were mediocre. In all four seasons he struckout a shit-ton and did absolutely nothing against LH pitching (.210 career). Considering that he'll invariably be misused as a leadoff hitter and should really have a RH counterpart to platoon with- ugh. He'd be a nice complimentary piece if he were to bat 5th so if we're able to get him for lesser prospects I'm all for it. But, if the Tigers insist on Castro, thanks but no thanks. The Cubs can get more for him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1.) You make good points.
2.) Take it up with Baseball Prospectus ("Baseball Prospectus’ minor league expert Kevin Goldstein told me yesterday that he believes that Castro is the most over hyped prospect he has seen in a while. 'Castro is a good prospect with excellent skills but for people to think he is on the verge of super stardom is ludicrous,' Goldstein said. 'He has good athletic ability, a solid bat but limited power and to hear him compared by some observers to Hanley Ramirez is nuts.'")
3.) My words: "Am I saying the Cubs should necessarily trade Castro in a deal for Granderson? No. But neither should they necessarily exclude the idea." I can accept that you disagree, but my position is not by any stretch of the imagination ludicrous.
How many Corey Pattersons, Felix Pies, and Brooks Kieschnicks does it take?
"Studly" prospects - particularly those who have exactly one year of solid (not incredible, mind you) performance - do not always pan out. That's all I'm saying.
Is Granderson the right target for employing the Castro bomb? Maybe not. I'll concede that. But if the offseason plays out as it could (i.e., Bradley gone, chasm opens in center field when Fuk slides to right), wouldn't someone like Granderson be an ideal target?
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I think we could get Granderson for less than our (currently) most valuable prospect. Granderson simply isn't all that good.
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Granderson is coming off a .249, 141 SO season. I think we could get him for cheap rather than trading off our #1 prospect and #1 draft pick of 2008 for him. I don't think he is worth the effort.
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