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<!--quoteo(post=68803:date=Nov 12 2009, 01:55 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Nov 12 2009, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=68798:date=Nov 12 2009, 01:51 PM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Nov 12 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who said Granderson had to hit leadoff?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
His career to this point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And the fact that Lou would bat him there because he is fast.
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<!--quoteo(post=68772:date=Nov 12 2009, 11:38 AM:name=Destined)-->QUOTE (Destined @ Nov 12 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->His best year so far was 2007. <b><i>He hit .160 vs. LHP</i></b> on his way to 38 doubles, 23 triples, 23 homers and 26 steals.
Victorino on the other hand...
100+ runs the last two years, hit .314 vs. LHP in '09 and his career high in strikeouts (71) is less than a hundred than Granderson's career high (174).
He had the best arm on earth, if you didn't include Ichiro, and he just won a Gold Glove.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you Shane Victorinos brother or something?
"I'm not sure I know what ball cheese or crotch rot is, exactly -- or if there is a difference between the two. Don't post photos, please..."
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From Keith Law's chat:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->PJ (Chicago)
Hey KLAW! Can you give me a starting point for a Cubs deal for Granderson? Is Phil Rogers' article this morning suggesting Marmol and Castro too much?
Klaw
(1:15 PM)
Yeah, WAY too much for a player who probably needs to be platooned.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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trading marmol would be a mistake. if he can show just a little control, he could be dominant again. i mean, no one hits him. get the wlks down and he's our closer. the time has come.
Wang.
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Unless it's something along the lines of Bradley (and maybe a prospect or some cash) for Granderson, I don't see the point.
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Um Marmol and Castro is way too much for Granderson.
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<!--quoteo(post=68847:date=Nov 12 2009, 06:48 PM:name=funkster)-->QUOTE (funkster @ Nov 12 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Um Marmol and Castro is way too much for Granderson.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Castro will probably be the Cub's starting SS from late 2010 till 2020. He projects to be a genuine star.
I like Granderson, and would always welcome someone from my home area of Blue Island/Robbins, Ill.
But that trade would be insane.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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I'm as high on Castro as anyone ... but haven't we danced this dance before?
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<!--quoteo(post=68854:date=Nov 12 2009, 08:57 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Nov 12 2009, 08:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=68847:date=Nov 12 2009, 06:48 PM:name=funkster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (funkster @ Nov 12 2009, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Um Marmol and Castro is way too much for Granderson.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Castro will probably be the Cub's starting SS from late 2010 till 2020. He projects to be a genuine star.
I like Granderson, and would always welcome someone from my home area of Blue Island/Robbins, Ill.
But that trade would be insane.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm as high on Castro and Cubs prospects as maybe anyone here. I don't think that's a secret. However, despite the big time emergence of Castro, he still hasn't proven a thing in the big leagues, and Marmol is a bullpen arm when it all boils down to it. Granderson has a career .823 OPS while playing home games in Detroit's chasm of a baseball park. Last year, he was <b> incredibly</b> unlucky with a .275 BABIP and a 21% LD% (if you don't know how those numbers translate in terms of luck, just look at the underlined word). He still managed a .780 OPS. The guy is a quality ball player. I would be disappointed to not see Castro flourish with the Cubs, and I'm a big believer in Marmol as a closer. But, this would be a pretty decent trade from the Cubs perspective.
That being said, it's much easier to find a Granderson type than it is to find a + defensive shortstop with offensive ability and a reliever with Marmol's ability. If Castro turns out to be all they're saying he will, this trade would turn out unbelievably lopsided.
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Sorry just think think that trade suggestion is another one of Roger's ideas - like DFA-ing Zambrano last season. Other than Rogers has anyone a baseball source/writer suggest Marmol + Castro type players/deal suggested in a trade for Granderson?
Marmol is the Cubs closer for next season and a proven set up man the last 2 years. The Cubs aren't dumb enough to blow up their bullpen in order to get a platoon CF even if it is Curtis Granderson.
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I wouldnt trade Castro in a deal for Curtis Granderson or Curtis Goodwin.
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ESPN rumors includes the Angels and Brewers as teams interested in Curtis as well as the Yankees and the Cubs.
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With Castro, he either comes up and contributes to the Cubs, comes up and doesn't or winds up doing one or the other for someone else. I want to give him every chance to be a star in Cubbie blue. I do not want to spend a decade talking about what a stupid move it was to deal him. To me that's worse than having him come up and not live up to the hype, then only getting what he's worth out of him in a deal.
Please do NOT deal Castro...maybe...<i>maybe</i>...if we were one deal away from a WS but we aren't.
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<!--quoteo(post=68906:date=Nov 13 2009, 12:18 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Nov 13 2009, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With Castro, he either comes up and contributes to the Cubs, comes up and doesn't or winds up doing one or the other for someone else. I want to give him every chance to be a star in Cubbie blue. I do not want to spend a decade talking about what a stupid move it was to deal him. To me that's worse than having him come up and not live up to the hype, then only getting what he's worth out of him in a deal.
Please do NOT deal Castro...maybe...<i>maybe</i>...if we were one deal away from a WS but we aren't.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just playing devil's advocate here... but what if Castro turns into what Pie has become? The Cubs just didn't give Pie enough of a chance, sold low on him, and now it looks like Pie could be at least an adequate everyday player if not more. I'm not saying it will happen, but if it does are you ok with it?
In Pie's instance, I'm just annoyed that the Cubs didn't give him more of a chance than they did. I don't regret that they didn't trade him sooner for more value though.
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<!--quoteo(post=68932:date=Nov 13 2009, 02:15 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Nov 13 2009, 02:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=68906:date=Nov 13 2009, 12:18 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Nov 13 2009, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->With Castro, he either comes up and contributes to the Cubs, comes up and doesn't or winds up doing one or the other for someone else. I want to give him every chance to be a star in Cubbie blue. I do not want to spend a decade talking about what a stupid move it was to deal him. To me that's worse than having him come up and not live up to the hype, then only getting what he's worth out of him in a deal.
Please do NOT deal Castro...maybe...<i>maybe</i>...if we were one deal away from a WS but we aren't.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just playing devil's advocate here... but what if Castro turns into what Pie has become? The Cubs just didn't give Pie enough of a chance, sold low on him, and now it looks like Pie could be at least an adequate everyday player if not more. I'm not saying it will happen, but if it does are you ok with it?
In Pie's instance, I'm just annoyed that the Cubs didn't give him more of a chance than they did. I don't regret that they didn't trade him sooner for more value though.
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I don't really see the devil's advocacy. You asking how I'd feel if they keep him for now but don't give him enough of a chance after he comes up and then deal him low...then he develops elsewhere? I guess I'd be disappointed by the missed opportunity but I don't know if, in that hypothetical future I'd be for or against dealing him. I might agree or disagree with management THEN and I might be right or I might be wrong.
I'm just saying that I think it's a mistake to deal a prospect NOW that has this kind of potential. He may be a bust...but if he's a future star, I want every chance for that to happen in our organization.
It's not like we have a ton of great prospects but we have even less cash. Right now, I'd rather be getting top value for Fox and other commodities than someone that could be way more than a utility player. I worry that Hendry sees every prospect as a negotiable instrument.
We're not close enough to a championship club to trade our future away. I'm resigned to a rebuilding process and we're obviously not going to get there in the FA market.
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