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<!--quoteo(post=33803:date=Apr 28 2009, 08:43 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 28 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33793:date=Apr 28 2009, 08:26 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 28 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
Their starting lineup:
Ramon Hernandez -- replaces Bako. Automatic upgrade.
Joey Votto -- played last year. Was great. I expect him to take a step forward. Slight upgrade.
Brandon Phillips -- played last year. Won a gold glove. Bad BA, but hit 21 homers. 30 the year before. Could go either way. Push.
Alex Gonzalez -- replaces Keppinger. Neither one is great, but Gonzalez hit .272/.325/.468 for the Reds in 2007. I'm leaning towards upgrade, but I'll give it a push to be fair.
Edwin Encarnacion -- played last year. Could take a step forward based on his age. Maybe not. I'll give it a push.
Chris Dickerson* -- replaces Dunn. Downgrade. Although I'm sure there are some on this site who would argue otherwise.
Willy Taveras -- replaces Patterson. Upgrade.
Jay Bruce* -- replaces Griffey. Upgrade.
Sorry. I'm not seeing the downgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because you live in a fantasy world. Hernandez doesn't replace Bako, he replaces Valentin, they're the same guy. Gonzalaez doesn't replace Keppinger, he was the starter last year. Encarnacion is hurt and is on the verge of losing his job. Their OF went form Griffey, Dunn, Bruce to Dickerson, Tavares, Bruce, that's a huge, huge, huge downgrade. Patterson was a starter for about a month last year. Their bench is terrible and missing Freel, Keppinger, and Ross. Jerry Hairston Jr. is currently playing almost everyday. You're insane if you don't think their team has taken a huge step back offensively, that's about all Len and Bob talked about in the first series.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Bako had more than twice as many plate appearances as Valentin last season.
- Patterson played in 135 games and had 392 plate appearances last season. That's more than just a starter for about a month.
- Is Hairston hurt? Because he's only played in 11 games this year.
Anyway, I guess we'll see where they end up. I'm not saying they're going to take the division -- only that they'll win more than 74 games. I'm guessing they're at least a .500 ballclub.
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<!--quoteo(post=33895:date=Apr 28 2009, 10:31 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 28 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33803:date=Apr 28 2009, 08:43 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 28 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33793:date=Apr 28 2009, 08:26 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 28 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
Their starting lineup:
Ramon Hernandez -- replaces Bako. Automatic upgrade.
Joey Votto -- played last year. Was great. I expect him to take a step forward. Slight upgrade.
Brandon Phillips -- played last year. Won a gold glove. Bad BA, but hit 21 homers. 30 the year before. Could go either way. Push.
Alex Gonzalez -- replaces Keppinger. Neither one is great, but Gonzalez hit .272/.325/.468 for the Reds in 2007. I'm leaning towards upgrade, but I'll give it a push to be fair.
Edwin Encarnacion -- played last year. Could take a step forward based on his age. Maybe not. I'll give it a push.
Chris Dickerson* -- replaces Dunn. Downgrade. Although I'm sure there are some on this site who would argue otherwise.
Willy Taveras -- replaces Patterson. Upgrade.
Jay Bruce* -- replaces Griffey. Upgrade.
Sorry. I'm not seeing the downgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because you live in a fantasy world. Hernandez doesn't replace Bako, he replaces Valentin, they're the same guy. Gonzalaez doesn't replace Keppinger, he was the starter last year. Encarnacion is hurt and is on the verge of losing his job. Their OF went form Griffey, Dunn, Bruce to Dickerson, Tavares, Bruce, that's a huge, huge, huge downgrade. Patterson was a starter for about a month last year. Their bench is terrible and missing Freel, Keppinger, and Ross. Jerry Hairston Jr. is currently playing almost everyday. You're insane if you don't think their team has taken a huge step back offensively, that's about all Len and Bob talked about in the first series.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
- Bako had more than twice as many plate appearances as Valentin last season.
- Patterson played in 135 games and had 392 plate appearances last season. That's more than just a starter for about a month.
- Is Hairston hurt? Because he's only played in 11 games this year.
Anyway, I guess we'll see where they end up. I'm not saying they're going to take the division -- only that they'll win more than 74 games. I'm guessing they're at least a .500 ballclub.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's cause Valentin got hurt, but the combo of Valentin, Bako, and Ross had almost the exact same numbers as Hernandez. Patterson started 82 games, so maybe he started regularly for 2 months. Hairston is just starting to play more because Encarnacion is hurt and Gonzalez isn't 100% either. The Reds aren't gonna be .500 and they're gonna be lucky to match those 74 wins.
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butchie, i'm a doom and gloom guy much like yourself, but it's ridiculous to worry about the reds and the pirates. the Pirates? thew day they become a force is the day i start watching nascar.
i underestimate the cardinals every year. i'm not going to make that mistake again. there two teeams in the division that scare me: the cardianls and the cubs. we can beat the cardinals. i just hope the cubs don't beat themselves.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=33803:date=Apr 28 2009, 08:43 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 28 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33793:date=Apr 28 2009, 08:26 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 28 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
Their starting lineup:
Ramon Hernandez -- replaces Bako. Automatic upgrade.
Joey Votto -- played last year. Was great. I expect him to take a step forward. Slight upgrade.
Brandon Phillips -- played last year. Won a gold glove. Bad BA, but hit 21 homers. 30 the year before. Could go either way. Push.
Alex Gonzalez -- replaces Keppinger. Neither one is great, but Gonzalez hit .272/.325/.468 for the Reds in 2007. I'm leaning towards upgrade, but I'll give it a push to be fair.
Edwin Encarnacion -- played last year. Could take a step forward based on his age. Maybe not. I'll give it a push.
Chris Dickerson* -- replaces Dunn. Downgrade. Although I'm sure there are some on this site who would argue otherwise.
Willy Taveras -- replaces Patterson. Upgrade.
Jay Bruce* -- replaces Griffey. Upgrade.
Sorry. I'm not seeing the downgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because you live in a fantasy world. Hernandez doesn't replace Bako, he replaces Valentin, they're the same guy. Gonzalaez doesn't replace Keppinger, he was the starter last year. Encarnacion is hurt and is on the verge of losing his job. Their OF went form Griffey, Dunn, <b>Bruce to Dickerson</b>, Tavares, Bruce, that's a huge, huge, huge downgrade. Patterson was a starter for about a month last year. Their bench is terrible and missing Freel, Keppinger, and Ross. Jerry Hairston Jr. is currently playing almost everyday. You're insane if you don't think their team has taken a huge step back offensively, that's about all Len and Bob talked about in the first series.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
![[Image: Christopher-Walken.jpg]](http://more-cowbell.org/images/8/8b/Christopher-Walken.jpg)
Yes, THE Bruce to Dickerson.
I picture a pissed-off Amazon bitch; uncontrollable, disobedient, boldly resisting any kind of emotional shackles...angrily begging for more ejaculate. -KB
Showing your teeth is a sign of weakness in primates. Whenever someone smiles at me, all I see is a chimpanzee begging for its life. - Dwight
RIP Sarge
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<!--quoteo(post=33969:date=Apr 29 2009, 09:38 AM:name=Jody)-->QUOTE (Jody @ Apr 29 2009, 09:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33803:date=Apr 28 2009, 08:43 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 28 2009, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33793:date=Apr 28 2009, 08:26 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 28 2009, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
Their starting lineup:
Ramon Hernandez -- replaces Bako. Automatic upgrade.
Joey Votto -- played last year. Was great. I expect him to take a step forward. Slight upgrade.
Brandon Phillips -- played last year. Won a gold glove. Bad BA, but hit 21 homers. 30 the year before. Could go either way. Push.
Alex Gonzalez -- replaces Keppinger. Neither one is great, but Gonzalez hit .272/.325/.468 for the Reds in 2007. I'm leaning towards upgrade, but I'll give it a push to be fair.
Edwin Encarnacion -- played last year. Could take a step forward based on his age. Maybe not. I'll give it a push.
Chris Dickerson* -- replaces Dunn. Downgrade. Although I'm sure there are some on this site who would argue otherwise.
Willy Taveras -- replaces Patterson. Upgrade.
Jay Bruce* -- replaces Griffey. Upgrade.
Sorry. I'm not seeing the downgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's because you live in a fantasy world. Hernandez doesn't replace Bako, he replaces Valentin, they're the same guy. Gonzalaez doesn't replace Keppinger, he was the starter last year. Encarnacion is hurt and is on the verge of losing his job. Their OF went form Griffey, Dunn, <b>Bruce to Dickerson</b>, Tavares, Bruce, that's a huge, huge, huge downgrade. Patterson was a starter for about a month last year. Their bench is terrible and missing Freel, Keppinger, and Ross. Jerry Hairston Jr. is currently playing almost everyday. You're insane if you don't think their team has taken a huge step back offensively, that's about all Len and Bob talked about in the first series.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, THE Bruce to Dickerson.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The cock of the walk
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<!--quoteo(post=33675:date=Apr 28 2009, 11:39 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 28 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Adam Dunn -- .311/.475/.607/1.082
5 HR, 15 RBI
18 games, 80 plate appearances
Milton Bradley -- .042/.281/.167/.488
1 HR, 1 RBI
11 games, 32 plate appearances<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's go back to the original post. Let it linger.
Ruby said that the reason for this is that Dunn <i>benefit</i>s from playing on a lousy team.
Yes, he said that.
Let it linger.
Ahhh.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=34071:date=Apr 29 2009, 04:08 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 29 2009, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=33675:date=Apr 28 2009, 11:39 AM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 28 2009, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Adam Dunn -- .311/.475/.607/1.082
5 HR, 15 RBI
18 games, 80 plate appearances
Milton Bradley -- .042/.281/.167/.488
1 HR, 1 RBI
11 games, 32 plate appearances<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's go back to the original post. Let it linger.
Ruby said that the reason for this is that Dunn <i>benefit</i>s from playing on a lousy team.
Yes, he said that.
Let it linger.
Ahhh.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I said it cause it's true.
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I agree with Ruby. When the other team is coasting through another victory, Dunn will get his numbers in, but I don't think he puts enough effort in to compete day in/ day out on a winning team. Dunn is young, relatively fast, agile and athletic. He was a collage quarterback, so I assume he has a good arm. Offensively, he has moved into his prime years, but has never improved. Last year was his contract year, and he hits worse than the year before. He has a second chance on a playoff contender, not only does he not improve, he does not improve the team (which seemed only to need a big bat), the team he left plays better without him.
Aram is a good example. He has greatly improved his defense, and become a complete and consistant hitter.
I like you guys a lot.
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Perhaps Dunn's biggest asset is his durability.
All things being equal, do you want big production for 100 games or 160?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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It isn't as if this is Dunn's first experience on a non-contender.
His career with the Reds:
2001 -- 5th place
2002 -- 3rd place
2003 -- 5th place
2004 -- 4th place
2005 -- 5th place
2006 -- 3rd place
2007 -- 5th place
2008 -- 5th place
His team has never finished above 3rd, and more often than not, finished 5th.
By the way, I fully expect his numbers to fall closer in line with his career averages -- which I would still take over Bradley's 80 games with us (or whatever it is he ends up playing).
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Even the great Adam Dunn couldn't have made this team play better during this rough stretch.
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<!--quoteo(post=34096:date=Apr 29 2009, 04:28 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 29 2009, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Even the great Adam Dunn couldn't have made this team play better during this rough stretch.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It certainly wouldn't have hurt to have him. Aside from the few games like today where we got annihilated, several of the other games could've been won with just a timely hit or two with RISP.
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<!--quoteo(post=34098:date=Apr 29 2009, 05:31 PM:name=jeffy)-->QUOTE (jeffy @ Apr 29 2009, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=34096:date=Apr 29 2009, 04:28 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 29 2009, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Even the great Adam Dunn couldn't have made this team play better during this rough stretch.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It certainly wouldn't have hurt to have him. Aside from the few games like today where we got annihilated, several of the other games could've been won with just a timely hit or two with RISP.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anything is possible, but on days like this when the pitching completely collapses, I doubt one player would make much of a difference. We're starting to lose games badly now, unlike during the first couple weeks when we were in every game, win or lose. Besides, Dunn's stats with RISP aren't all that impressive anyway.
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<!--quoteo(post=34098:date=Apr 29 2009, 05:31 PM:name=jeffy)-->QUOTE (jeffy @ Apr 29 2009, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=34096:date=Apr 29 2009, 04:28 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 29 2009, 04:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Even the great Adam Dunn couldn't have made this team play better during this rough stretch.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It certainly wouldn't have hurt to have him. Aside from the few games like today where we got annihilated, several of the other games could've been won with just a timely hit or two with RISP.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adam Dunn isn't exactly the guy I think of when I want a timely hit or two with RISP. A walk? Maybe. But a timely hitter, Adam Dunn is not.
The thing you need to remember is that all Cardinals fans and all White Sox fans are very bad people. It's a fact that has been scientifically proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. Being a Cubs fan is the only path to rightousness and piousness. Cardinal and White Sox fans exist to be the dark, diabolical forces that oppose us. They are the yin to our yang, the Joker to our Batman, the demon to our angel, the insurgence to our freedom, the oil to our water, the club to our baby seal. Their happiness occurs only in direct conflict with everything that is pure and good in this world.
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dunn hits .224 with a .417 obp and .475 slugging. Ibanez on the other hand has a .305,.381,.495 line for his career......
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