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Clapp · 02-06-2009, 02:50 PM

QUOTE (veryzer @ Feb 6 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>everyone is finding it ironic that they're making a movie about a guy who's never won a thing. you brought up hendry, which was irrelevant to the conversation, and i pointed out the fact that no one is making a movie about him. hope that clarifies things a little.
Exactly. Beane's a good GM, so is Hendry. Should there be a movie about either of them? Absolutely not.

veryzer · 02-06-2009, 02:54 PM

QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Feb 6 2009, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>everyone is finding it ironic that they're making a movie about a guy who's never won a thing. you brought up hendry, which was irrelevant to the conversation, and i pointed out the fact that no one is making a movie about him. hope that clarifies things a little.
I was responding to what Dirk said -- which only references Beane's supposed brilliance. Nothing about the film was mentioned. Everyone who criticizes Beane likes to point out that his teams always fall flat in the playoffs. All I was saying is that it doesn't matter -- the playoffs are a crapshoot and that the teams Beane built (for a fraction of the cost of the teams the A's faced in the playoffs) were still really good. What Beane has done with the small-market A's is incredible -- what they do in the playoffs doesn't change that.

Hope that clarifies things a little.
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a little.

***Butcher*** · 02-06-2009, 03:17 PM

QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Feb 6 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>everyone is finding it ironic that they're making a movie about a guy who's never won a thing. you brought up hendry, which was irrelevant to the conversation, and i pointed out the fact that no one is making a movie about him. hope that clarifies things a little.
Exactly. Beane's a good GM, so is Hendry. Should there be a movie about either of them? Absolutely not.
</div>
I'm not saying a movie based on Moneyball should be made -- it shouldn't. But Beane, for better or for worse, has revolutionized the way people look at, analyze, hell -- even play the game. Hendry hasn't done anything like that at all. If you had to make a movie about one of them, you make it about Beane.

Clapp · 02-06-2009, 03:20 PM

QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Feb 6 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>everyone is finding it ironic that they're making a movie about a guy who's never won a thing. you brought up hendry, which was irrelevant to the conversation, and i pointed out the fact that no one is making a movie about him. hope that clarifies things a little.
Exactly. Beane's a good GM, so is Hendry. Should there be a movie about either of them? Absolutely not.
</div>
I'm not saying a movie based on Moneyball should be made -- it shouldn't. But Beane, for better or for worse, has revolutionized the way people look at, analyze, <b>hell -- even play the game.</b> Hendry hasn't done anything like that at all. If you had to make a movie about one of them, you make it about Beane.
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No it hasn't.

***Butcher*** · 02-06-2009, 03:22 PM

QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Feb 6 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>everyone is finding it ironic that they're making a movie about a guy who's never won a thing. you brought up hendry, which was irrelevant to the conversation, and i pointed out the fact that no one is making a movie about him. hope that clarifies things a little.
Exactly. Beane's a good GM, so is Hendry. Should there be a movie about either of them? Absolutely not.
</div>
I'm not saying a movie based on Moneyball should be made -- it shouldn't. But Beane, for better or for worse, has revolutionized the way people look at, analyze, <b>hell -- even play the game.</b> Hendry hasn't done anything like that at all. If you had to make a movie about one of them, you make it about Beane.
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No it hasn't.
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Yes he has.

***Butcher*** · 02-06-2009, 03:26 PM

Just to expand -- a lot, maybe most, teams now have the philosophy of taking a lot of pitches, taking walks, wearing down the starter, etc. I'm not saying there weren't players who took a lot of walks before Beane, but it wasn't emphasized to the extent it is now. Whether a straight line can be drawn directly to Beane, I'm not sure. But he has had an effect.

Clapp · 02-06-2009, 03:27 PM

QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Feb 6 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>everyone is finding it ironic that they're making a movie about a guy who's never won a thing. you brought up hendry, which was irrelevant to the conversation, and i pointed out the fact that no one is making a movie about him. hope that clarifies things a little.
Exactly. Beane's a good GM, so is Hendry. Should there be a movie about either of them? Absolutely not.
</div>
I'm not saying a movie based on Moneyball should be made -- it shouldn't. But Beane, for better or for worse, has revolutionized the way people look at, analyze, <b>hell -- even play the game.</b> Hendry hasn't done anything like that at all. If you had to make a movie about one of them, you make it about Beane.
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No it hasn't.
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Yes he has.
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Who? Everybody just assumes that but the players don't talk about this. I don't think I've heard a single player say "OPS". They don't go up looking to walk. There's naturally been an emphasis of being more selective and waiting for your pitch to drive as the years went on, but I don't think <i>Billy Beane </i>changed the way these guys play the game. Most of them think this crap is bogus and that these stat geeks don't know what they're talking about.

***Butcher*** · 02-06-2009, 03:35 PM

QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Feb 6 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>everyone is finding it ironic that they're making a movie about a guy who's never won a thing. you brought up hendry, which was irrelevant to the conversation, and i pointed out the fact that no one is making a movie about him. hope that clarifies things a little.
Exactly. Beane's a good GM, so is Hendry. Should there be a movie about either of them? Absolutely not.
</div>
I'm not saying a movie based on Moneyball should be made -- it shouldn't. But Beane, for better or for worse, has revolutionized the way people look at, analyze, <b>hell -- even play the game.</b> Hendry hasn't done anything like that at all. If you had to make a movie about one of them, you make it about Beane.
</div>
No it hasn't.
</div>
Yes he has.
</div>
Who? Everybody just assumes that but the players don't talk about this. I don't think I've heard a single player say "OPS". They don't go up looking to walk. There's naturally been an emphasis of being more selective and waiting for your pitch to drive as the years went on, but I don't think <i>Billy Beane </i>changed the way these guys play the game. Most of them think this crap is bogus and that these stat geeks don't know what they're talking about.
</div>
I'm not saying it's all due to Beane, but he's had an effect on the game -- including how it is played. Theo Epstein was a Beane-prodigy and the way he built the Red Sox team that won it all is indirectly due to Beane. I don't remember the exact stat, but that team swung at an incredibly low percentage of pitches outside the strike zone in the World Series. Far lower than any other team. I remember the discussion on Baseball Tonight. Think that philosophy just happened? Again -- it isn't all because of Beane, but his influence is there.

If you can't see it, I don't know what else to say.

kbwsb · 02-06-2009, 03:35 PM

The book Moneyball itself is a highly <i>dramatized</i> account of the day-to-day operations of a baseball GM. It's totally factual, but it highlights the juicy stuff, like all good dramatic material.
A movie would likely do the same.

As a film subject, Beane is an interesting guy; a genuinely gifted athlete who <i>failed</i> at playing baseball, then made a Phoenix-like rise through an intellectual pursuit (in the same field).
He's also handsome, charismatic, boisterous, bullish, and inspires both adoration and intense jealousy, even hatred...there's a reason they're making a movie about the guy, and that Brad Pitt is going to play him.

As for Dirk's laughable, juvenile, absurd quote, I'll just let it sit there and gather scorn...it's a "logic fail" question that has been blasted to smithereens so many times on the internet that I'll just let Butch's post answer it here.

Clapp · 02-06-2009, 03:49 PM

QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 01:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Feb 6 2009, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>everyone is finding it ironic that they're making a movie about a guy who's never won a thing. you brought up hendry, which was irrelevant to the conversation, and i pointed out the fact that no one is making a movie about him. hope that clarifies things a little.
Exactly. Beane's a good GM, so is Hendry. Should there be a movie about either of them? Absolutely not.
</div>
I'm not saying a movie based on Moneyball should be made -- it shouldn't. But Beane, for better or for worse, has revolutionized the way people look at, analyze, <b>hell -- even play the game.</b> Hendry hasn't done anything like that at all. If you had to make a movie about one of them, you make it about Beane.
</div>
No it hasn't.
</div>
Yes he has.
</div>
Who? Everybody just assumes that but the players don't talk about this. I don't think I've heard a single player say "OPS". They don't go up looking to walk. There's naturally been an emphasis of being more selective and waiting for your pitch to drive as the years went on, but I don't think <i>Billy Beane </i>changed the way these guys play the game. Most of them think this crap is bogus and that these stat geeks don't know what they're talking about.
</div>
I'm not saying it's all due to Beane, but he's had an effect on the game -- including how it is played. Theo Epstein was a Beane-prodigy and the way he built the Red Sox team that won it all is indirectly due to Beane. I don't remember the exact stat, but that team swung at an incredibly low percentage of pitches outside the strike zone in the World Series. Far lower than any other team. I remember the discussion on Baseball Tonight. Think that philosophy just happened? Again -- it isn't all because of Beane, but his influence is there.

If you can't see it, I don't know what else to say.
</div>
The team is BUILT differently, but the players aren't playing differently. Some of these guys teams found useless years ago now are getting the chances to play. Beane's had a great influence on the game and I'm a fan of him, I just don't think these players really care about him and all these sabermetric theories.

Really, if you approached the game as a player this way, you'd probably fail miserably. You'd end up thinking too much at the plate. What would Adam Dunn be if he didn't have prodigious power?

Again, Beane's had a huge influence on the game and changed the way fans and front offices view the game, but I don't think he's made a difference on the players. That's just my opinion.

bz · 02-06-2009, 03:50 PM

People will see this movie. It's a baseball movie. People always see baseball movies. Plus, Brad Pitt's in it.

***Butcher*** · 02-06-2009, 03:53 PM

I think we're arguing semantics here at this point, Clapp. Perhaps I should've written "how the game is played" instead of "how people play the game."

However, I still believe there is a more patient approach, across the board, at the plate. And much of that can be attributed, directly or indirectly, to Beane.

I'm tired of talking about Beane. When the fuck do pitchers and catchers report?

Clapp · 02-06-2009, 03:55 PM

QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think we're arguing semantics here at this point, Clapp. Perhaps I should've written "how the game is played" instead of "how people play the game."

However, I still believe there is a more patient approach, across the board, at the plate. And much of that can be attributed to, directly or indirectly, to Beane.

I'm tired of talking about Beane. When the fuck do pitchers and catchers report?
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] I love you.

***Butcher*** · 02-06-2009, 03:56 PM

QUOTE (Clapp @ Feb 6 2009, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Feb 6 2009, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think we're arguing semantics here at this point, Clapp. Perhaps I should've written "how the game is played" instead of "how people play the game."

However, I still believe there is a more patient approach, across the board, at the plate. And much of that can be attributed to, directly or indirectly, to Beane.

I'm tired of talking about Beane. When the fuck do pitchers and catchers report?
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] I love you.
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[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wub.gif[/img]
Let's spoon. I call the inside spoon!

Dirk · 02-06-2009, 04:11 PM

QUOTE (KBwsb @ Feb 6 2009, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The book Moneyball itself is a highly <i>dramatized</i> account of the day-to-day operations of a baseball GM. It's totally factual, but it highlights the juicy stuff, like all good dramatic material.
A movie would likely do the same.

As a film subject, Beane is an interesting guy; a genuinely gifted athlete who <i>failed</i> at playing baseball, then made a Phoenix-like rise through an intellectual pursuit (in the same field).
He's also handsome, charismatic, boisterous, bullish, and inspires both adoration and intense jealousy, even hatred...there's a reason they're making a movie about the guy, and that Brad Pitt is going to play him.

As for Dirk's laughable, juvenile, absurd quote, I'll just let it sit there and gather scorn...it's a "logic fail" question that has been blasted to smithereens so many times on the internet that I'll just let Butch's post answer it here.
I accused you of raping a book and my pointing out that Beane's teams never go far into the playoffs was the laughable and juvenile part?

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