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<!--quoteo(post=8127:date=Jan 1 2009, 01:33 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 1 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8120:date=Jan 1 2009, 01:24 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 1 2009, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8117:date=Jan 1 2009, 01:19 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 1 2009, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8113:date=Jan 1 2009, 01:12 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 1 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8106:date=Jan 1 2009, 12:51 PM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Jan 1 2009, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->That is assuming we go after Peavy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we land Peavy, I'm fine with the DeRosa trade. But unless Hendry already has the pieces in place and the trade already outlined and agreed on, then this was an idiotic move and moving DeRosa made us a weaker team.
If this wasn't laying the groundwork for a Peavy deal, then it was a rebuilding move. And I haven't seen any evidence that we're rebuilding in 2009.
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We're not rebuilding anytime soon.
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Then why did Hendry trade DeRosa for prospects? It has to be for pieces for another trade if we aren't rebuilding.
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We're not "rebuilding". The core's still here for at least a couple more years, and Soto and Marmol for example a lot longer. You're lying to yourself if you think Hendry's really not trying to make the team better. There's still 2 months to go in the offseason, and he claims we'll have a better team on the field this year than last year. After the moves he's made the last couple years I'm forced to believe him and think this means he has a couple big moves in the plans.
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I hope you're right. I hope the DeRosa deal is just a sliver of the bigger picture.
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<!--quoteo(post=8129:date=Jan 1 2009, 02:37 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 1 2009, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8127:date=Jan 1 2009, 01:33 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 1 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8120:date=Jan 1 2009, 01:24 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 1 2009, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8117:date=Jan 1 2009, 01:19 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 1 2009, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8113:date=Jan 1 2009, 01:12 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 1 2009, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8106:date=Jan 1 2009, 12:51 PM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Jan 1 2009, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->That is assuming we go after Peavy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If we land Peavy, I'm fine with the DeRosa trade. But unless Hendry already has the pieces in place and the trade already outlined and agreed on, then this was an idiotic move and moving DeRosa made us a weaker team.
If this wasn't laying the groundwork for a Peavy deal, then it was a rebuilding move. And I haven't seen any evidence that we're rebuilding in 2009.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're not rebuilding anytime soon.
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Then why did Hendry trade DeRosa for prospects? It has to be for pieces for another trade if we aren't rebuilding.
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We're not "rebuilding". The core's still here for at least a couple more years, and Soto and Marmol for example a lot longer. You're lying to yourself if you think Hendry's really not trying to make the team better. There's still 2 months to go in the offseason, and he claims we'll have a better team on the field this year than last year. After the moves he's made the last couple years I'm forced to believe him and think this means he has a couple big moves in the plans.
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I hope you're right. I hope the DeRosa deal is just a sliver of the bigger picture.
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I'd honestly be shocked if it wasn't. Wasn't Hendry just inferring a few weeks ago that DeRosa was too valuable to give up, and that was to get Jake Peavy? Now all of a sudden he trades DeRosa for 3 crap prospects, replaces him with an average at best utility player, gives up our #5 starter for a reliever pats his prime, and that's it? I'm not buying that. And again, I can't see him doing all this to only sign a guy that's played 100+ games 3 times in 9 seasons. We'll see... but I just don't think that's the case.
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If this was a move to get Peavy, why did they not make it a 3 team deal? What if the Padres back out of some kind of side deal? We are stuck with these guys.
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<!--quoteo(post=8140:date=Jan 1 2009, 02:05 PM:name=wcplummer)-->QUOTE (wcplummer @ Jan 1 2009, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If this was a move to get Peavy, why did they not make it a 3 team deal? What if the Padres back out of some kind of side deal? We are stuck with these guys.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's my concern. If the three pitchers we picked up weren't targeted by the Padres or agreed on to be part of the Peavy deal in some way, then this trade was just awful. If they were, then great.
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<!--quoteo(post=8140:date=Jan 1 2009, 03:05 PM:name=wcplummer)-->QUOTE (wcplummer @ Jan 1 2009, 03:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If this was a move to get Peavy, why did they not make it a 3 team deal? What if the Padres back out of some kind of side deal? We are stuck with these guys.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said yesterday, what if Miles for example wouldn't sign unless DeRosa's moved? It sounds like we might have to wait for the new ownership to get Peavy. What if the Indians wanted to get DeRo now rather than waiting a month, and the Cubs and Padres decide they don't want to do the deal? There's a lot of little things like that that could factor into it.
I get the feeling there's some sort of agreement already, and Towers said he wouldn't talk about it this time. Hendry's up to something anyway.
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Is it possible that we don't know the inner workings of things with regards to DeRosa? Is it possible that he had some personal issues? That something happened that he asked to be traded or moved? Or that there was some personality conflict? I mean, if everyone internal is tight lipped, the way they should be, we would never know. It's all to often that one side or the other leaks the story to protect themselves.
I got nothin'.
Andy
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<!--quoteo(post=8146:date=Jan 1 2009, 03:22 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Jan 1 2009, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Is it possible that we don't know the inner workings of things with regards to DeRosa? Is it possible that he had some personal issues? That something happened that he asked to be traded or moved? Or that there was some personality conflict? I mean, if everyone internal is tight lipped, the way they should be, we would never know. It's all to often that one side or the other leaks the story to protect themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That crossed my mind, but DeRosa seems to be about the last guy where that would be a problem. Definitely possible though.
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<!--quoteo(post=8148:date=Jan 1 2009, 02:26 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 1 2009, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=8146:date=Jan 1 2009, 03:22 PM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Jan 1 2009, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Is it possible that we don't know the inner workings of things with regards to DeRosa? Is it possible that he had some personal issues? That something happened that he asked to be traded or moved? Or that there was some personality conflict? I mean, if everyone internal is tight lipped, the way they should be, we would never know. It's all to often that one side or the other leaks the story to protect themselves.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That crossed my mind, but DeRosa seems to be about the last guy where that would be a problem. Definitely possible though.
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I wouldn't think so either, as DeRosa doesn't seem like the type. But you never know.
I got nothin'.
Andy
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I can't imagine that Hendry thinks this way, but maybe he's simply "selling high."
DeRosa will turn 34 next season, and he just had, by far, the best season of his career.
How many guys improve, or stay the same in their mid-30's? Five percent? Ten?
Perhaps the whole age-adjustment thing has finally dawned on Jim, and he's acting accordingly.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=8153:date=Jan 1 2009, 02:37 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 1 2009, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I can't imagine that Hendry thinks this way, but maybe he's simply "selling high."
DeRosa will turn 34 next season, and he just had, by far, the best season of his career.
How many guys improve, or stay the same in their mid-30's? Five percent? Ten?
Perhaps the whole age-adjustment thing has finally dawned on Jim, and he's acting accordingly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At face value, though, it seems he could've sold a little higher.
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<!--quoteo(post=8153:date=Jan 1 2009, 02:37 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 1 2009, 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I can't imagine that Hendry thinks this way, but maybe he's simply "selling high."
DeRosa will turn 34 next season, and he just had, by far, the best season of his career.
How many guys improve, or stay the same in their mid-30's? Five percent? Ten?
Perhaps the whole age-adjustment thing has finally dawned on Jim, and he's acting accordingly.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just don't see why he'd do that for such a little return when DeRo was arguably our MVP. It's different if you're getting a legitimate player or two in return but these prospects seem unlikely to make an impact. We're talking about just one season of the guy, it's not like Lee and Soriano's situations.
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[/quote]
Can you at least acknowledge that Hendry's "plan" led his team to the best record in the National League last year?
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If you can acknowledge that his "plan" has led to 0 playoff wins in 2 years and 6 attempts.
I don't mean to be arguementative, but I think Jim at this point needs to be measured not by the skill level of the team but their performance as a whole, and as a whole, both the 2007 and 2008 teams underperformed expectations. The 2007 team was expected by most to beat Arizona and lose in the next round, and the 2008 team was picked by many to at minimum get to the World Series.
Bottom line is that he's got to get us over the hump and none of the moves he has made so far this offseason has made us a drastically better ballclub as of yet...at least on paper.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->If you can acknowledge that his "plan" has led to 0 playoff wins in 2 years and 6 attempts.
I don't mean to be arguementative, but I think Jim at this point needs to be measured not by the skill level of the team but their performance as a whole, and as a whole, both the 2007 and 2008 teams underperformed expectations. The 2007 team was expected by most to beat Arizona and lose in the next round, and the 2008 team was picked by many to at minimum get to the World Series.
Bottom line is that he's got to get us over the hump and none of the moves he has made so far this offseason has made us a drastically better ballclub as of yet...at least on paper.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's put arguably the best team in baseball on paper out there, how was he supposed to know they wouldn't produce in October? They looked as good as anybody in the regular season and the rotation was about as good as you could have for the playoffs. His job is to go out and get great players, their job is to produce. You can't blame Hendry for these last 2 playoffs. I swear, you put the 08 team in a different uniform and they're world champs.
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I couldn't even comment on this yesterday. I was too pissed and still am. This HAS to be part of something up ahead... it just has to. If not, then Hendry has eaten one too many pork chops in his lifetime and the fat has clearly clogged his brain rendering him incapable of making lucid decisions.
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Sully's projected Opening Day lineup from this morning's Trib:
1. Miles 2B
2. Gathight CF
3. Lee 1B
4. Ramirez 3B
5. Bradley RF
6. Soriano LF
7. Soto C
8. Theriot SS
9. Zambrano SP
Um, wow...
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