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<!--quoteo(post=59101:date=Aug 20 2009, 02:55 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Aug 20 2009, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59080:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:25 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Aug 20 2009, 01:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59079:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:19 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Aug 20 2009, 01:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59076:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:14 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Aug 20 2009, 01:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->As much as I despise KW, I'm starting to come around to the fact there is a method to his madness. I'm very jealous of what he's accomplished. Whether it was/is luck or skill, I have no idea, but I think he has built a team that will compete for several years to come and won't be hamstrung by payroll.
There, I said it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what you mean. That he has built a cost efficient team, or that the Sox will raise payroll, so that won't be a concern?
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They will be cost efficient starting next season and will still be able to raise payroll in the next few seasons, all while remaining competitive. I'm not sure how long it will last though, but I'd like to have their problems for the next 3-5 seasons. It hurts me to say it.
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I don't know. They currently have 68 million tied up in 10 guys. They have Jenks, Danks, Quenton and Carrasco up for Arbitration. I'd say that's a minimum of 20 million more. So 88 million (at least), and they will still need to replace Thome, Dye, Contreras, and Dotel.
Their pitching staff is set, and they have cheap options at 3rd and 2nd.
If they are willing to spend well over 100 million, then they will have some flexibility. But bear in mind for this season, Dye and Thome have been 2 of their best hitters, and their team isn't that good offensively. Rios isn't going to change that by very much.
They are in better shape than us, but I don't know if you could call them cost efficient. It will be interesting to see how much the 25 million due Peavy and Rios next year could have bought them in this off-season's free agent class.
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I don't disagree with any of that. I'm still mildly jealous of them, and it just seems that they have a lot more positives than negatives relatively speaking compared to our organization. I'm probably a little obsessed right now, because I don't think I can take several years of Sox success or god forbid another championship. Even if there is the slightest chance of that happening, I will be paranoid and continue to overrate other organizations to our own. I'll shut up now.
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It's tough to have a guy like KW across town. I don't even know if he's "good," but he has bigger cajones than just about any GM in the game. And the Sox do seem to contend almost every year.
If he were GMing for any other team than the Sox (or Cards/Brewers/Astros) I'd kind of enjoy watching him work, with his relentless nature, and pedal-to-the-metal, balls-out style.
Silver lining: the chances he's taking are so wild, that there is a perfectly solid possibility that one or more of his gambles could blow up in his face. So, we can hope.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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It's too bad the AL Central sucks so hard this season. Aren't the Sox only 2 games back of the Tigers? And don't we have a better record than them? And yet, our season is a total disaster and the Sox are very much alive. Weird how perspective changes everything.
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<!--quoteo(post=59133:date=Aug 20 2009, 05:09 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 20 2009, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's too bad the AL Central sucks so hard this season. Aren't the Sox only 2 games back of the Tigers? And don't we have a better record than them? And yet, our season is a total disaster and the Sox are very much alive. Weird how perspective changes everything.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not coming to defense of the White Sox but believe the White Sox have 1 more win and 2 more losses than the Cubs. The Cubs have played less games. I have some cash on the line regarding the Cubs record vs Sox record for the year so I have begun watching the totals.
Regarding weak divisions, the NL Central isn't that strong either.
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it's not that the white sox are better than the cubs, it's that the cardinals are better than detroit.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=59134:date=Aug 20 2009, 05:23 PM:name=1060Ivy)-->QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Aug 20 2009, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59133:date=Aug 20 2009, 05:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 20 2009, 05:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's too bad the AL Central sucks so hard this season. Aren't the Sox only 2 games back of the Tigers? And don't we have a better record than them? And yet, our season is a total disaster and the Sox are very much alive. Weird how perspective changes everything.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not coming to defense of the White Sox but believe the White Sox have 1 more win and 2 more losses than the Cubs. The Cubs have played less games. I have some cash on the line regarding the Cubs record vs Sox record for the year so I have begun watching the totals.
Regarding weak divisions, the NL Central isn't that strong either.
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Well, I'm not sure how any of that information changes my point.
- We're ahead of the Sox by percentage points, record-wise.
- The first place team in the AL Central has a .533 winning percentage. If the Sox were in the NL Central, they'd be 6.5 games back. Instead, they're 2 games back.
So, as I was saying...we still look like an absolute disaster at 6 games back and they look competitive at 2 games back.
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I think both clubs are just slightly above average. The Cubs have the advantage of playing in a much weaker league with more terrible teams. Getting 18 vs Pitt and Cinci must be sweet. KC is much better than those two teams. The problem is the Cubs have 18 vs STL who is much better than DET or Minny. Either way, I don't think either of these two teams are going anywhere this season.
As far as the future - who knows how Rios and Peavy will work out. I agree with whomever said the odds are good one of KWs gambles blows up. Worst case, Peavy is a middle rotation guy. Worst case, Rios is still the best CF the Sox have had in my lifetime. That said - you don't spend that kind of cash on worst case.
Someone made a farm system comment. The Sox farm is much improved over last season. I think it will grade out middle of the pack this year even after bringing up Beckham and Getz and trading Richard, Carter and Poreda. Watch Tyler Flowers who was acquired for Javy Vazquez. And Daniel Hudson, a 5th rounder I think, from a few years ago has moved all the way from A to AAA this year, tearing it up, and may get a Sept. callup.
I'd rather have the Cards team over any of the ones in this division. Every year those guys seem to be counted out - and every year they find a way to win. I don't get it. That team looked like shit in the offseason.
I'd really like to see both clubs get on an ass-fucking tear. This city is more fun when we are playing winning baseball on both sides of town. I have no interest in thinking about the Bears for a few more weeks.
As far as Hendry vs Williams - I'd love to see what Williams would do with 140mm and what Hendry would do with 90mm. Hendry was a good scout when he used to do that. He may be best suited in that role.
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KC isn't much better than any team.
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<!--quoteo(post=59182:date=Aug 20 2009, 10:54 PM:name=cherp)-->QUOTE (cherp @ Aug 20 2009, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs have the advantage of playing in a much weaker league with more terrible teams. Getting 18 vs Pitt and Cinci must be sweet. KC is much better than those two teams.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, that's a crock. Butch is right: KC is downright horrible. Only the Nationals have a worse winning percentage than the Royals. And Cleveland has sucked balls this year too.
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<!--quoteo(post=59189:date=Aug 20 2009, 11:14 PM:name=jeffy)-->QUOTE (jeffy @ Aug 20 2009, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59182:date=Aug 20 2009, 10:54 PM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Aug 20 2009, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs have the advantage of playing in a much weaker league with more terrible teams. Getting 18 vs Pitt and Cinci must be sweet. KC is much better than those two teams.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, that's a crock. Butch is right: KC is downright horrible. And Cleveland has sucked balls this year too.
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You guys may be right on Cinci...but I'll take KC over Pittsburgh for sure. Look at the roster in Pitt now, after the trade deadline. That's just shitterific.
As far as Cleveland goes, the team has loads of talent. They are far better than Pitt and Cincy.
Jeffy - which division do you think is stronger, top to bottom?
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<!--quoteo(post=59190:date=Aug 20 2009, 11:19 PM:name=cherp)-->QUOTE (cherp @ Aug 20 2009, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59189:date=Aug 20 2009, 11:14 PM:name=jeffy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jeffy @ Aug 20 2009, 11:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59182:date=Aug 20 2009, 10:54 PM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Aug 20 2009, 10:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The Cubs have the advantage of playing in a much weaker league with more terrible teams. Getting 18 vs Pitt and Cinci must be sweet. KC is much better than those two teams.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, that's a crock. Butch is right: KC is downright horrible. And Cleveland has sucked balls this year too.
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You guys may be right on Cinci...but I'll take KC over Pittsburgh for sure. Look at the roster in Pitt now, after the trade deadline. That's just shitterific.
As far as Cleveland goes, the team has loads of talent. They are far better than Pitt and Cincy.
Jeffy - which division do you think is stronger, top to bottom?
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Cleavland traded away their best players (Martinez, Cliff Lee, DeRosa), and they weren't that great before that. They have a few good guys left, but I don't see how their that much better than the Reds, at least now any way.
But right now, I don't think either division is that great, besides the Cardinals. The Tigers are barely holding on, and everything below both the division leaders is just blah.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->As far as Hendry vs Williams - I'd love to see what Williams would do with 140mm and what Hendry would do with 90mm. Hendry was a good scout when he used to do that. He may be best suited in that role.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not 100% sure, but didn't the Sox have a top five payroll the last few years? I could be wrong, but I seem to remember them having a payroll in the neighborhood of $130M recently.
Oh, and I'm willing to entertain the idea that KC could be better than a few teams -- including Pittsburgh and Washington. But, again -- they aren't MUCH better than anyone.
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<!--quoteo(post=59192:date=Aug 20 2009, 10:28 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 20 2009, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, and I'm willing to entertain the idea that KC could be better than a few teams -- including Pittsburgh and Washington. But, again -- they aren't MUCH better than anyone.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's like comparing one turd with another. No matter how you measure them, they're both still shit.
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<!--quoteo(post=59192:date=Aug 20 2009, 11:28 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 20 2009, 11:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->As far as Hendry vs Williams - I'd love to see what Williams would do with 140mm and what Hendry would do with 90mm. Hendry was a good scout when he used to do that. He may be best suited in that role.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not 100% sure, but didn't the Sox have a top five payroll the last few years? I could be wrong, but I seem to remember them having a payroll in the neighborhood of $130M recently.
Oh, and I'm willing to entertain the idea that KC could be better than a few teams -- including Pittsburgh and Washington. But, again -- they aren't MUCH better than anyone.
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That payroll was very deceiving - I don't recall if it was Top 5 or not (USA Today's Salary DB would answer that Q if we looked) but it was bouyed by the money that the Phillies and the DBacks/Yanks sent over with Thome/Vazquez. The Sox expenditure during those years was lower than it looked. It was also pumped up, short term, with the extra revenue from the World Series - and the subsequent ticket sales. While they have retained some of it, they have lost a good chunk also.
Ok - I'll look it up - I'm curious. #12 with 96mm this year, #5 with 121mm last year (Money from Philly paid for Thome), #5 at 108 in 07 (and a shitty team).
Yeah - not a small market payroll at all. But still 30% smaller than most of the Cubs teams - and they had to take on players who other teams were paying to get rid of (javy and Thome) just to do it. Give a guy like Williams $130mm free and clear - I think he acts differently. Not sure if that would be better or worse...
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<!--quoteo(post=59193:date=Aug 20 2009, 11:37 PM:name=jeffy)-->QUOTE (jeffy @ Aug 20 2009, 11:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59192:date=Aug 20 2009, 10:28 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 20 2009, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Oh, and I'm willing to entertain the idea that KC could be better than a few teams -- including Pittsburgh and Washington. But, again -- they aren't MUCH better than anyone.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's like comparing one turd with another. No matter how you measure them, they're both still shit.
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So True....
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