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<!--quoteo(post=72763:date=Dec 22 2009, 10:07 AM:name=Dirk)-->QUOTE (Dirk @ Dec 22 2009, 10:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't know how anyone could cheer for the Yankees. It's like cheering for Wal Mart.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm with you. Of course, if you grew up/live in New York, then I get it. But just hopping on their bandwagon because they always win? Weak.
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<!--quoteo(post=72743:date=Dec 22 2009, 07:24 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 22 2009, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72742:date=Dec 22 2009, 08:23 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 22 2009, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72731:date=Dec 22 2009, 01:31 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 22 2009, 01:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72680:date=Dec 21 2009, 04:06 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 21 2009, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72677:date=Dec 21 2009, 03:57 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 21 2009, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72675:date=Dec 21 2009, 03:44 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Dec 21 2009, 03:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72672:date=Dec 21 2009, 03:19 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 21 2009, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I will blow a fucking gasket if we trade Zambrano.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->Megadittos.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->So there is literally no package the Yankees could put together that would satisfy you guys?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Yeah. They could send us A-Rod, Sabathia, Jeter, and Rivera, eat their salary to make it even, and I'd still be pissed.
No. Of course they could put together a package that would satisfy me. But I'm guessing if we were to trade Z at this point, we wouldn't get equal value. If we're actually going into a rebuilding mode (which we aren't), I'm fine with trading everyone -- including Z.
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Butch nails it. Sure, ANY player can be traded; Gretsky, Wilt Chamberlain, and Babe Ruth all switched teams<i> in their primes.</i>
But we have James Hendry at the wheel.
'Nuff said.
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I'm pretty sure that was my point.
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Megadittos sounds like Taco Bell's next item.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I meant when I said, "There is no deal that Hendry could put together for Z that would satisfy me."
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<!--quoteo(post=72761:date=Dec 22 2009, 09:41 AM:name=cherp)-->QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 22 2009, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72759:date=Dec 22 2009, 09:12 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 22 2009, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wow, I can't believe they are giving Vazquez another shot in NY. He just can't pitch in a big market. Brilliant.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm also surprised Javy waived his NTC to go to NY. I recall he was miserable there the first time around. This seems like a bad idea to me for all parties. Melky Cabrerra, while he'd be the best CF in Chicago (on either team) is still very mediocre. Atlanta gets to move Nate McLouth out of CF (he's a hideous defensive CF), so I guess I get it (Diaz to RF, McLouth to LF? and Jordan Schaefer is the 4th OF?)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm shocked the Braves couldn't get more than that. Really shocked.
And I would trade Zambrano in a heartbeat. Now, before Butch and Jstraw swallow their tongues, I'm not saying I would GIVE Zambrano away. However, he earns more than he is worth. If someone wanted to give us a package commensurate with Zambrano's perceived value, I'd jump on it. Yes, it would leave a hole in the rotation, but there are ways of filling those (as the Yankees showed). We might be able to spin some of what we get for Zambrano into a #2 starter, who isn't being paid like he is a #1 starter.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=72778:date=Dec 22 2009, 12:43 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 22 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72761:date=Dec 22 2009, 09:41 AM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 22 2009, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72759:date=Dec 22 2009, 09:12 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 22 2009, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wow, I can't believe they are giving Vazquez another shot in NY. He just can't pitch in a big market. Brilliant.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm also surprised Javy waived his NTC to go to NY. I recall he was miserable there the first time around. This seems like a bad idea to me for all parties. Melky Cabrerra, while he'd be the best CF in Chicago (on either team) is still very mediocre. Atlanta gets to move Nate McLouth out of CF (he's a hideous defensive CF), so I guess I get it (Diaz to RF, McLouth to LF? and Jordan Schaefer is the 4th OF?)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm shocked the Braves couldn't get more than that. Really shocked.
And I would trade Zambrano in a heartbeat. Now, before Butch and Jstraw swallow their tongues, I'm not saying I would GIVE Zambrano away. However, he earns more than he is worth. If someone wanted to give us a package commensurate with Zambrano's perceived value, I'd jump on it. Yes, it would leave a hole in the rotation, but there are ways of filling those (as the Yankees showed). We might be able to spin some of what we get for Zambrano into a #2 starter, who isn't being paid like he is a #1 starter.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't have any faith in Hendry's ability to pull off a good trade for Zambrano. First, he'd decide to trade him, then he would tell every member of the media that the Cubs *have* to move him. Then he'd suspend him for the first month of the season. Then he'd trade him for a replacement-level 2B and eat all of Zambrano's salary.
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<!--quoteo(post=72780:date=Dec 22 2009, 12:48 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 22 2009, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72778:date=Dec 22 2009, 12:43 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 22 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72761:date=Dec 22 2009, 09:41 AM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 22 2009, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72759:date=Dec 22 2009, 09:12 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 22 2009, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wow, I can't believe they are giving Vazquez another shot in NY. He just can't pitch in a big market. Brilliant.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm also surprised Javy waived his NTC to go to NY. I recall he was miserable there the first time around. This seems like a bad idea to me for all parties. Melky Cabrerra, while he'd be the best CF in Chicago (on either team) is still very mediocre. Atlanta gets to move Nate McLouth out of CF (he's a hideous defensive CF), so I guess I get it (Diaz to RF, McLouth to LF? and Jordan Schaefer is the 4th OF?)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I'm shocked the Braves couldn't get more than that. Really shocked.
And I would trade Zambrano in a heartbeat. Now, before Butch and Jstraw swallow their tongues, I'm not saying I would GIVE Zambrano away. However, he earns more than he is worth. If someone wanted to give us a package commensurate with Zambrano's perceived value, I'd jump on it. Yes, it would leave a hole in the rotation, but there are ways of filling those (as the Yankees showed). We might be able to spin some of what we get for Zambrano into a #2 starter, who isn't being paid like he is a #1 starter.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't have any faith in Hendry's ability to pull off a good trade for Zambrano. First, he'd decide to trade him, then he would tell every member of the media that the Cubs *have* to move him. Then he'd suspend him for the first month of the season. Then he'd trade him for a replacement-level 2B and eat all of Zambrano's salary.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BT and Butch are BOTH right.That's the problem a modern Cub fan has to live with; yes, of course it'd be nice to spin off Z for a helpful piece, like a good CF, or a middle infielder, or as BT says, a similar pitcher (in fact, Vasquez would have been a great deal).
But it's Jim fucking Hendry in charge. So Butch's scenario is the archtype. Thus, no thanks.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<b><!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I don't have any faith in Hendry's ability to pull off a good trade for Zambrano. First, he'd decide to trade him, then he would tell every member of the media that the Cubs *have* to move him. Then he'd suspend him for the first month of the season. Then he'd trade him for a replacement-level 2B and eat all of Zambrano's salary.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--></b>
Damn, that was good, Butch. Painful, but spot-on.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=72780:date=Dec 22 2009, 12:48 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Dec 22 2009, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72778:date=Dec 22 2009, 12:43 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 22 2009, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72761:date=Dec 22 2009, 09:41 AM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 22 2009, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72759:date=Dec 22 2009, 09:12 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Dec 22 2009, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wow, I can't believe they are giving Vazquez another shot in NY. He just can't pitch in a big market. Brilliant.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm also surprised Javy waived his NTC to go to NY. I recall he was miserable there the first time around. This seems like a bad idea to me for all parties. Melky Cabrerra, while he'd be the best CF in Chicago (on either team) is still very mediocre. Atlanta gets to move Nate McLouth out of CF (he's a hideous defensive CF), so I guess I get it (Diaz to RF, McLouth to LF? and Jordan Schaefer is the 4th OF?)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm shocked the Braves couldn't get more than that. Really shocked.
And I would trade Zambrano in a heartbeat. Now, before Butch and Jstraw swallow their tongues, I'm not saying I would GIVE Zambrano away. However, he earns more than he is worth. If someone wanted to give us a package commensurate with Zambrano's perceived value, I'd jump on it. Yes, it would leave a hole in the rotation, but there are ways of filling those (as the Yankees showed). We might be able to spin some of what we get for Zambrano into a #2 starter, who isn't being paid like he is a #1 starter.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't have any faith in Hendry's ability to pull off a good trade for Zambrano. First, he'd decide to trade him, then he would tell every member of the media that the Cubs *have* to move him. Then he'd suspend him for the first month of the season. Then he'd trade him for a replacement-level 2B and eat all of Zambrano's salary.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Excellent Butch.
That was entirely my point. I'm not interested in any trade for Z <i>that Hendry could put together</i>.
Now is the winter of our discontent...
By the way, Billy Shakes didn't mean "this winter sucks ass," he meant "this ass-suckiness is in its winter."
In this case I believe it's both. This winter with Hendry sucks AND this is the last off-season we have to worry about Hendry. I don't want him moving anyone of value...everyone can stay put till someone that's not an idiot can take charge of player personnel.
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I'm amazed at how much Jim Hendry has fallen in the eyes of Cub fans. Now I am not praising him - but at the same time, his record does have a lot of pluses on it also. No - he hasn't won it all, and yes, he's made some awful decisions. But he has also put together the nucleus of a team that has won 265 games in the past 3 years and will again likely be the favorite to win the division.
I wouldnt' want Hendry running my club, because I don't like his philosophy of dumpster diving. But he has done a darn good job of it. For all the complaining about the types of deals Hendry makes, he has brought Derek Lee, Aramis Ramirez and Ryan Dempster, Ted Lilly, etc. here via trade or signing when those guys were not seen to be the types of players they were.
My biggest issue with him is actually his choices for hiring managers. To me, the guys he has brought in, and the money he spent on them, is shocking. I hated Baker and never saw Lou being the type of guy still motivated to lead this club.
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<!--quoteo(post=72795:date=Dec 22 2009, 11:57 AM:name=cherp)-->QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 22 2009, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm amazed at how much Jim Hendry has fallen in the eyes of Cub fans. Now I am not praising him - but at the same time, his record does have a lot of pluses on it also. No - he hasn't won it all, and yes, he's made some awful decisions. But he has also put together the nucleus of a team that has won 265 games in the past 3 years and will again likely be the favorite to win the division.
I wouldnt' want Hendry running my club, because I don't like his philosophy of dumpster diving. But he has done a darn good job of it. For all the complaining about the types of deals Hendry makes, he has brought Derek Lee, Aramis Ramirez and Ryan Dempster, Ted Lilly, etc. here via trade or signing when those guys were not seen to be the types of players they were.
My biggest issue with him is actually his choices for hiring managers. To me, the guys he has brought in, and the money he spent on them, is shocking. I hated Baker and never saw Lou being the type of guy still motivated to lead this club.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hendry took away DeRo and Woody and gave us Miles and Gregg. It only makes sense to gripe, right?
I hate my pretentious sounding username too.
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You see Cherp, if you outspend the next highest club in your division by $40M you should have a team that wins 95 games a season. It's really that simple. We have a huge fucking advantage and JH cannot do a damn thing with it.
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<!--quoteo(post=72798:date=Dec 22 2009, 02:45 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 22 2009, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->You see Cherp, if you outspend the next highest club in your division by $40M you should have a team that wins 95 games a season. It's really that simple. We have a huge fucking advantage and JH cannot do a damn thing with it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I would say that we aren't even the clear-cut favorite in the Central. If the Cards re-sign Holliday, they are still the team to beat IMO. We have quite a few question marks.
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<!--quoteo(post=72798:date=Dec 22 2009, 02:45 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 22 2009, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->You see Cherp, if you outspend the next highest club in your division by $40M you should have a team that wins 95 games a season. It's really that simple. We have a huge fucking advantage and JH cannot do a damn thing with it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not if that 40 million is hurt, on the dl, or psychotic. And we had more than 40 million that fit that bill last year.
and that's a pretty bad metric, I might add. I suppose Kenny Williams should be fired because the Sox, while outspending the Twins by 30 million, didn't win 95 games?
Hendry deserves a LOT of shit. He doesn't deserve half the shit he gets from guy on this board.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=72798:date=Dec 22 2009, 02:45 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 22 2009, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->You see Cherp, if you outspend the next highest club in your division by $40M you should have a team that wins 95 games a season. It's really that simple. We have a huge fucking advantage and JH cannot do a damn thing with it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure you should - ideally - but it doesn't always play out that way. Spending, while it does have a correlation to winning, is not the only variable. BT is correct - he spent money that didn't pan out. Now some of that, I agree, was predictable. But some wasn't. It can't be nearly as much of his fault as some make it sound.
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<!--quoteo(post=72790:date=Dec 22 2009, 01:41 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 22 2009, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><b><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I don't have any faith in Hendry's ability to pull off a good trade for Zambrano. First, he'd decide to trade him, then he would tell every member of the media that the Cubs *have* to move him. Then he'd suspend him for the first month of the season. Then he'd trade him for a replacement-level 2B and eat all of Zambrano's salary.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--></b>
Damn, that was good, Butch. Painful, but spot-on.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, that was spot on. I mean, when you think of how bad Jim Hendry has done, the FIRST thing that pops into your head is all the bad trades he made. I mean there was the Pierre trade (because we traded away a guy who baseball reference shows has comps to Mike Harkey), and then there was..well....ummm...let's see....oh yeah, the fucking moron traded away Aardsma!!!!!!!! Who, after being traded 2 more times, actually had a pretty decent year!
Geez, that record really speaks for itself, doesn't it? Painful, but spot-on.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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