Soriano

[phan]

the booing has absolutely gotten worse since 2004 and it's embarrasing.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=92034:date=Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92019:date=Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92015:date=Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


And then he'll get booed. That's the way it is in sports, whether we like it or not. You get booed when you suck and cheered when you don't. It's always been that way and it always will, in every park and stadium in the world. Not just at Wrigley and not just now. Always and everywhere.

That's why I find it so amusing when we bitch about the booing. Where have you been the last 30 or forty years of your life? This isn't anything new.

When someone can't catch a routine fly ball and the fans boo, I think, "Wow, if he catches that, no one boos." You guys think, "Stupid fans, why are they booing?" To me, it's the players fault (most of the time) when the fans boo, not the fans fault.
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this is all demonstrably false Tom. How often did you see Mark Grace get booed? Greg Maddux? Ryne Sandberg? Did they just never suck for the Cubs? I was at the first playoff game in 1989. Maddux thought the best pitch to throw Will Clark with the bases loaded was a thigh high fastball. Did the fans boo Maddux after that home run? Of course not.

People can boo players, I don't generally have a problem with that. But the idea that we should boo our own players mercilessly after any infraction, is bullshit.
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Bingo.

[cherp]

It's not just Wrigley either...this is getting worse all over. It is magnified at Wrigley - because fans used to boo opponents more than their own, and now the tide has turned. Bleacher fans used to trash Strawberry and Davis and those guys. Now they trash their own as well.

On the Southside, the douchbaggery from fans has gotten worse also. Some people feel like purchasing a ticket gives them the right to be as big an ass as they can. I guess it does - but just because they have that right, doesn't make it right to do it.

I'll boo a player on one of my teams if he is not making an effort. In the case of Soriano, that's on the fringe. The defense, in particular the inability to consistently catch a routine fly ball, is amateurish. But at the same time, some of the other booing is just ridiculous and certainly doesn't do anything to help anyone except it makes the booer feel more involved/powerful. I don't suppor that kind of crap. But every time a ball hits off of Soriano's heel and turns an out into a double, I don't see any reason why the fans wouldn't boo that. It's not like this is an isolated incident.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=92034:date=Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92019:date=Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92015:date=Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


And then he'll get booed. That's the way it is in sports, whether we like it or not. You get booed when you suck and cheered when you don't. It's always been that way and it always will, in every park and stadium in the world. Not just at Wrigley and not just now. Always and everywhere.

That's why I find it so amusing when we bitch about the booing. Where have you been the last 30 or forty years of your life? This isn't anything new.

When someone can't catch a routine fly ball and the fans boo, I think, "Wow, if he catches that, no one boos." You guys think, "Stupid fans, why are they booing?" To me, it's the players fault (most of the time) when the fans boo, not the fans fault.
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this is all demonstrably false Tom. How often did you see Mark Grace get booed? Greg Maddux? Ryne Sandberg? Did they just never suck for the Cubs? I was at the first playoff game in 1989. Maddux thought the best pitch to throw Will Clark with the bases loaded was a thigh high fastball. Did the fans boo Maddux after that home run? Of course not.

People can boo players, I don't generally have a problem with that. But the idea that we should boo our own players mercilessly after any infraction, is bullshit.
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It IS bullshit BT. Good thing I never said it. But I guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that had Maddux, Grace, or Sandberg continued to make the same mistakes over and over and over, they would have been booed. No question. Of course, you picked three of the most beloved Cubs of all time....and they're white. But whatever, the the fact of the matter is you consistently suck, you get booed. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's what happens.

This is what I like about Soriano. HE never bitched about the booing. Not one time. He owned up to it, he took responsibility for it and now he's doing things to change it.

Fans boo? Quit the hop. Done. Broadcasters criticize his lack of hustle? Hustle out a triple the very next night. Done. No crying, no whining, just realization that it's his fault and not the fans. They aren't booing now right?

[Kid]

<!--quoteo(post=92141:date=Apr 22 2010, 03:28 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92034:date=Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92019:date=Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92015:date=Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


And then he'll get booed. That's the way it is in sports, whether we like it or not. You get booed when you suck and cheered when you don't. It's always been that way and it always will, in every park and stadium in the world. Not just at Wrigley and not just now. Always and everywhere.

That's why I find it so amusing when we bitch about the booing. Where have you been the last 30 or forty years of your life? This isn't anything new.

When someone can't catch a routine fly ball and the fans boo, I think, "Wow, if he catches that, no one boos." You guys think, "Stupid fans, why are they booing?" To me, it's the players fault (most of the time) when the fans boo, not the fans fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


this is all demonstrably false Tom. How often did you see Mark Grace get booed? Greg Maddux? Ryne Sandberg? Did they just never suck for the Cubs? I was at the first playoff game in 1989. Maddux thought the best pitch to throw Will Clark with the bases loaded was a thigh high fastball. Did the fans boo Maddux after that home run? Of course not.

People can boo players, I don't generally have a problem with that. But the idea that we should boo our own players mercilessly after any infraction, is bullshit.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


It IS bullshit BT. Good thing I never said it. But I guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that had Maddux, Grace, or Sandberg continued to make the same mistakes over and over and over, they would have been booed. No question. Of course, you picked three of the most beloved Cubs of all time....and they're white. But whatever, the the fact of the matter is you consistently suck, you get booed. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's what happens.

This is what I like about Soriano. HE never bitched about the booing. Not one time. He owned up to it, he took responsibility for it and now he's doing things to change it.

Fans boo? Quit the hop. Done. Broadcasters criticize his lack of hustle? Hustle out a triple the very next night. Done. No crying, no whining, just realization that it's his fault and not the fans. They aren't booing now right?
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They're not at home right now and he was being booed until they left for New York. If he happens to have a poor hitting series in Milwaukee he will absolutely be booed when they're home on Monday.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=92141:date=Apr 22 2010, 02:28 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92034:date=Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92019:date=Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92015:date=Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


And then he'll get booed. That's the way it is in sports, whether we like it or not. You get booed when you suck and cheered when you don't. It's always been that way and it always will, in every park and stadium in the world. Not just at Wrigley and not just now. Always and everywhere.

That's why I find it so amusing when we bitch about the booing. Where have you been the last 30 or forty years of your life? This isn't anything new.

When someone can't catch a routine fly ball and the fans boo, I think, "Wow, if he catches that, no one boos." You guys think, "Stupid fans, why are they booing?" To me, it's the players fault (most of the time) when the fans boo, not the fans fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


this is all demonstrably false Tom. How often did you see Mark Grace get booed? Greg Maddux? Ryne Sandberg? Did they just never suck for the Cubs? I was at the first playoff game in 1989. Maddux thought the best pitch to throw Will Clark with the bases loaded was a thigh high fastball. Did the fans boo Maddux after that home run? Of course not.

People can boo players, I don't generally have a problem with that. But the idea that we should boo our own players mercilessly after any infraction, is bullshit.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


It IS bullshit BT. Good thing I never said it. But I guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that had Maddux, Grace, or Sandberg continued to make the same mistakes over and over and over, they would have been booed. No question. Of course, you picked three of the most beloved Cubs of all time....and they're white. But whatever, the the fact of the matter is you consistently suck, you get booed. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's what happens.

This is what I like about Soriano. HE never bitched about the booing. Not one time. He owned up to it, he took responsibility for it and now he's doing things to change it.

Fans boo? Quit the hop. Done. Broadcasters criticize his lack of hustle? Hustle out a triple the very next night. Done. No crying, no whining, just realization that it's his fault and not the fans. They aren't booing now right?
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I never said you said that. It is, however, the way a large contingent of fans at Wrigley are starting to act.

Did Neifi get booed relentlessly? Did Leon Durham? Jerome Walton? Dwight Smith? Gaetti? Blauser? Wilkins? McClendon? Glenallen Hill? Dunston? How many times did Dunston throw a ball away from short? Did he get booed every time? Did he get booed when he came up to bat?

Is that enough non-black/non-beloved guys for you? The only guys I remember being booed constantly were guys like Hundley. They were the exception to the rule. Now Caridad is being booed on opening day? Really? And you think that's a GOOD thing?

the fans aren't booing Soriano now because he is hitting. And if you think that he is suddenly seeing the ball better because a bunch of fans booed him when he was in the field, then I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise.

[bz]

What's the point of booing? It's not like the fans are responding to something that the coaches and players don't already know themselves.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=92145:date=Apr 22 2010, 02:39 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92141:date=Apr 22 2010, 02:28 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 02:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92034:date=Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92019:date=Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92015:date=Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


And then he'll get booed. That's the way it is in sports, whether we like it or not. You get booed when you suck and cheered when you don't. It's always been that way and it always will, in every park and stadium in the world. Not just at Wrigley and not just now. Always and everywhere.

That's why I find it so amusing when we bitch about the booing. Where have you been the last 30 or forty years of your life? This isn't anything new.

When someone can't catch a routine fly ball and the fans boo, I think, "Wow, if he catches that, no one boos." You guys think, "Stupid fans, why are they booing?" To me, it's the players fault (most of the time) when the fans boo, not the fans fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


this is all demonstrably false Tom. How often did you see Mark Grace get booed? Greg Maddux? Ryne Sandberg? Did they just never suck for the Cubs? I was at the first playoff game in 1989. Maddux thought the best pitch to throw Will Clark with the bases loaded was a thigh high fastball. Did the fans boo Maddux after that home run? Of course not.

People can boo players, I don't generally have a problem with that. But the idea that we should boo our own players mercilessly after any infraction, is bullshit.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


It IS bullshit BT. Good thing I never said it. But I guarantee you beyond a shadow of a doubt, that had Maddux, Grace, or Sandberg continued to make the same mistakes over and over and over, they would have been booed. No question. Of course, you picked three of the most beloved Cubs of all time....and they're white. But whatever, the the fact of the matter is you consistently suck, you get booed. Doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it's what happens.

This is what I like about Soriano. HE never bitched about the booing. Not one time. He owned up to it, he took responsibility for it and now he's doing things to change it.

Fans boo? Quit the hop. Done. Broadcasters criticize his lack of hustle? Hustle out a triple the very next night. Done. No crying, no whining, just realization that it's his fault and not the fans. They aren't booing now right?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said you said that. It is, however, the way a large contingent of fans at Wrigley are starting to act.

Did Neifi get booed relentlessly? Did Leon Durham? Jerome Walton? Dwight Smith? Gaetti? Blauser? Wilkins? McClendon? Glenallen Hill? Dunston? How many times did Dunston throw a ball away from short? Did he get booed every time? Did he get booed when he came up to bat?

Is that enough non-black/non-beloved guys for you? The only guys I remember being booed constantly were guys like Hundley. They were the exception to the rule. Now Caridad is being booed on opening day? Really? And you think that's a GOOD thing?

the fans aren't booing Soriano now because he is hitting. And if you think that he is suddenly seeing the ball better because a bunch of fans booed him when he was in the field, then I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise.
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I'd bet money that all of them were booed at one time or another. And I'm not sure what your last comment means. I specifically mentioned his fielding and lack of hustle. Two things he immediately worked on, right after being booed and being criticized.

I specifically remember my first ever Bulls game. The fans booed Dave corzine unmercifully that night. When he scored 25 points, they cheered him when the game was over. Now, that isn't a Cub game, but it's the same city, the same fans. If they were booing Bulls players in the early 80's, then I guarantee they were booing Cub players. This isn't something new.

Whether we like it or not, whether we think it's wrong or not, whether it's stupid or not, whether it serves a purpose or not, whether it helps or not, IT WILL NEVER CHANGE. It's a part of the game and always has been. The best remedy is to catch the fucking ball, hustle every play, and do what it takes to stop the booing. Period. Soriano is doing that and I applaud him. He may be many things, but he's not a crybaby. He has 18 million reasons to smile this year and to try to do his fucking job, like he's being paid to. God bless him.

[BT]

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I'd bet money that all of them were booed at one time or another. And I'm not sure what your last comment means. I specifically mentioned his fielding and lack of hustle. Two things he immediately worked on, right after being booed and being criticized.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And you think the booing caused him to change? I disagree.

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Whether we like it or not, whether we think it's wrong or not, whether it's stupid or not, whether it serves a purpose or not, whether it helps or not, IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It HAS changed Tom. I'm fine with people booing a guy who screws up. I do it sometimes as well. I'm fine with people booing Soriano when he drops an easy fly. I'm not fine when the boo him during his subsequent at bats. I'm not fine with them CHEERING when Lou takes him out of the game. Then booing him as he comes into the dugout. It's fucking classless and counterproductive.

[rok]

I guarantee you that Soriano will go back to not hustling at some point, and he will always be a bad fielder. At 34 years old, he isn't going to change no matter what we (or the uninformed masses at Wrigley) would want. People can boo all they want, and I'm not going to stop them. It is their right if they paid to get into the ballpark. It still doesn't make them smart or right though, and it is still a pointless, classless act.

[Clapp]

He is what he is: a fucking dumbass that is a top 20-25 hitter in baseball when you see his numbers at the end of the year.

He's never going to stop posing. He's never going to stop looking lazy out there. He's never going to get anywhere close to good in left field. He's not going to "earn" the remainder of his contract(and it would've been damn tough to do that anyway). Just let the guy be his dumbass self. It's frustrating as shit but he's still a damn productive baseball player.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=92015:date=Apr 22 2010, 06:24 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 22 2010, 06:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's great. At the end of the year the numbers are always there. He's near useless for some 3-week spans, but he's the best hitter on the planet outside of Pujols for some 3-week spans as well. He's carried us in many months in his time here.

[The Dude]

<!--quoteo(post=92145:date=Apr 22 2010, 02:39 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Did Neifi get booed relentlessly?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes, by me. From the moment he stepped to the plate for his first AB.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=92152:date=Apr 22 2010, 03:00 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I'd bet money that all of them were booed at one time or another. And I'm not sure what your last comment means. I specifically mentioned his fielding and lack of hustle. Two things he immediately worked on, right after being booed and being criticized.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And you think the booing caused him to change? I disagree.

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Whether we like it or not, whether we think it's wrong or not, whether it's stupid or not, whether it serves a purpose or not, whether it helps or not, IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It HAS changed Tom. I'm fine with people booing a guy who screws up. I do it sometimes as well. I'm fine with people booing Soriano when he drops an easy fly. I'm not fine when the boo him during his subsequent at bats. I'm not fine with them CHEERING when Lou takes him out of the game. Then booing him as he comes into the dugout. It's fucking classless and counterproductive.
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I do think it caused him to change. Absoutely.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=92152:date=Apr 22 2010, 03:00 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I'd bet money that all of them were booed at one time or another. And I'm not sure what your last comment means. I specifically mentioned his fielding and lack of hustle. Two things he immediately worked on, right after being booed and being criticized.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

And you think the booing caused him to change? I disagree.

<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Whether we like it or not, whether we think it's wrong or not, whether it's stupid or not, whether it serves a purpose or not, whether it helps or not, IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It HAS changed Tom. I'm fine with people booing a guy who screws up. I do it sometimes as well. I'm fine with people booing Soriano when he drops an easy fly. I'm not fine when the boo him during his subsequent at bats. I'm not fine with them CHEERING when Lou takes him out of the game. Then booing him as he comes into the dugout. It's fucking classless and counterproductive.
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This is absolutely how I see it.