Will anyone on the roster hit 20 homers this season?

[Clapp]

Just updating on this whole 20-homer thing. We should have 4(not that it matters)...

Soriano-19
Colvin-18
Ramirez-17
Lee-16

Soto has 15 but his injury will likely keep him away from hitting 5 more. He's got 15 in just 264 at bats too.

[Rappster]

<!--quoteo(post=111026:date=Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111019:date=Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111018:date=Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111017:date=Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111001:date=Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->At what point is his roster spot worth more than however much he's getting paid, if a league-minimum utility player can do the job...no worse?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What were your feelings on the day he signed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm asking a real question, not a rhetorical question. At what point? I'm serious...at what point is he literally taking up valuable space and his paycheck is no reason for his continued presence?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In his defense, this is a big problem for a lot of teams, not just Hendry. The Indians, for example, have the same situation with Travis Hafner, the Rockies with Todd Helton, the Astros with Carlos Lee....the teams feel as if they have to play these guys, just to justify the gigantic financial outlay, but it means putting a worse team on the field.

Maybe it isn't a fabulous idea to sign guys in their 30's to hundred-million-dollar contracts?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But I'm not trying to open up the Hendry debate again. I'm genuinely curious at what point a declining player simply has got to go...irrespective of his salary. I mean, if he's playing worse than a handful of guys we have waiting in AAA, he's just in the way, right? Is salary alone a reason to keep a guy on the roster? At some point do you deal him for <i>whatever</i> portion of his salary the market is willing to take on, just to rid yourself of him? He's not to that point yet but I seriously...can't see him being a reasonable presence on a 25-man roster two or three years from now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's actually a good question...because we've all heard the line "best players play", and not "most expensive". Clearly...would that we could, we'd take back that signing.

So...you have to figure out his value to another team. Is it $5M? (Who knows?) If it is...that means we're going to eat $12M a year to lose him.

I honestly don't know...he's eating up so much salary space that his on-field performance becomes hyper-critical, and he is playing at utility player level, right now.

I think we're stuck...it is an epidemic problem in baseball, and it helped sink us this year.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=111046:date=Aug 15 2010, 04:27 PM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Aug 15 2010, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111026:date=Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111019:date=Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111018:date=Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111017:date=Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111001:date=Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->At what point is his roster spot worth more than however much he's getting paid, if a league-minimum utility player can do the job...no worse?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What were your feelings on the day he signed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm asking a real question, not a rhetorical question. At what point? I'm serious...at what point is he literally taking up valuable space and his paycheck is no reason for his continued presence?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In his defense, this is a big problem for a lot of teams, not just Hendry. The Indians, for example, have the same situation with Travis Hafner, the Rockies with Todd Helton, the Astros with Carlos Lee....the teams feel as if they have to play these guys, just to justify the gigantic financial outlay, but it means putting a worse team on the field.

Maybe it isn't a fabulous idea to sign guys in their 30's to hundred-million-dollar contracts?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But I'm not trying to open up the Hendry debate again. I'm genuinely curious at what point a declining player simply has got to go...irrespective of his salary. I mean, if he's playing worse than a handful of guys we have waiting in AAA, he's just in the way, right? Is salary alone a reason to keep a guy on the roster? At some point do you deal him for <i>whatever</i> portion of his salary the market is willing to take on, just to rid yourself of him? He's not to that point yet but I seriously...can't see him being a reasonable presence on a 25-man roster two or three years from now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's actually a good question...because we've all heard the line "best players play", and not "most expensive". Clearly...would that we could, we'd take back that signing.

<b>So...you have to figure out his value to another team.</b> Is it $5M? (Who knows?) If it is...that means we're going to eat $12M a year to lose him.

I honestly don't know...he's eating up so much salary space that his on-field performance becomes hyper-critical, and he is playing at utility player level, right now.

I think we're stuck...it is an epidemic problem in baseball, and it helped sink us this year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But do you? At some point if you're eating something less than all of his salary, minus league minimum...and you have a guy making league minimum in his place and playing better than him, aren't you better off? Isn't there a hypothetical point where it's better to pay a player you've cut than to pay him and not cut him?

[Rappster]

<!--quoteo(post=111055:date=Aug 15 2010, 04:39 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111046:date=Aug 15 2010, 04:27 PM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Aug 15 2010, 04:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111026:date=Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111019:date=Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111018:date=Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111017:date=Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111001:date=Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->At what point is his roster spot worth more than however much he's getting paid, if a league-minimum utility player can do the job...no worse?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What were your feelings on the day he signed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm asking a real question, not a rhetorical question. At what point? I'm serious...at what point is he literally taking up valuable space and his paycheck is no reason for his continued presence?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In his defense, this is a big problem for a lot of teams, not just Hendry. The Indians, for example, have the same situation with Travis Hafner, the Rockies with Todd Helton, the Astros with Carlos Lee....the teams feel as if they have to play these guys, just to justify the gigantic financial outlay, but it means putting a worse team on the field.

Maybe it isn't a fabulous idea to sign guys in their 30's to hundred-million-dollar contracts?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But I'm not trying to open up the Hendry debate again. I'm genuinely curious at what point a declining player simply has got to go...irrespective of his salary. I mean, if he's playing worse than a handful of guys we have waiting in AAA, he's just in the way, right? Is salary alone a reason to keep a guy on the roster? At some point do you deal him for <i>whatever</i> portion of his salary the market is willing to take on, just to rid yourself of him? He's not to that point yet but I seriously...can't see him being a reasonable presence on a 25-man roster two or three years from now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's actually a good question...because we've all heard the line "best players play", and not "most expensive". Clearly...would that we could, we'd take back that signing.

<b>So...you have to figure out his value to another team.</b> Is it $5M? (Who knows?) If it is...that means we're going to eat $12M a year to lose him.

I honestly don't know...he's eating up so much salary space that his on-field performance becomes hyper-critical, and he is playing at utility player level, right now.

I think we're stuck...it is an epidemic problem in baseball, and it helped sink us this year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But do you? At some point if you're eating something less than all of his salary, minus league minimum...and you have a guy making league minimum in his place and playing better than him, aren't you better off? Isn't there a hypothetical point where it's better to pay a player you've cut than to pay him and not cut him?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes...at some point. It depends on the hole he's going to leave. That's a big chunk of money...no matter who you're replacing him with, we've already got $17M tied up in LF. Can we afford to release a Soriano, and spend another $5M for his replacement? That's the question.

What about using his contract to sell off someone we don't particularly want to lose...like Marmol? I'm not saying I like the idea, but you can fall back on the idea of packaging two to gain salary space.

[willis]

I think it's a "cost of winning, winning now, and are we willing to pay it?" debate. I think that he is closer to pure junk than some think. His defense has actually been a little better this year but his plate awareness and lack of clutch hitting is simply pathetic for someone who had his expectations and gets paid what he was paid. The day he signed, I was as excited as anyone. But all I could see and I am sure others was "we signed Soriano" not for how long and how much.

Unfortunately I don't see Ricketts just eating the money. But he is deteriorating before our eyes and he is taking up a spot on a major league roster and getting paid out his ass. It is a bad, and getting worse, situation. I never cared for 8 years when I read the details of his deal, but I never expected him to fall apart like he has. Upgrading LF is one of the few things that need to happen, but I unfortunately just don't see it. Hope I'm wrong.

Although as we saw with Bradley, there are suckers out there. Maybe if you dangle him with a price tag of...what $7-$8 million some fool will think it's worth the risk that he finds some old magic.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=111026:date=Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111019:date=Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111018:date=Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111017:date=Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111001:date=Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->At what point is his roster spot worth more than however much he's getting paid, if a league-minimum utility player can do the job...no worse?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What were your feelings on the day he signed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm asking a real question, not a rhetorical question. At what point? I'm serious...at what point is he literally taking up valuable space and his paycheck is no reason for his continued presence?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In his defense, this is a big problem for a lot of teams, not just Hendry. The Indians, for example, have the same situation with Travis Hafner, the Rockies with Todd Helton, the Astros with Carlos Lee....the teams feel as if they have to play these guys, just to justify the gigantic financial outlay, but it means putting a worse team on the field.

Maybe it isn't a fabulous idea to sign guys in their 30's to hundred-million-dollar contracts?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

But I'm not trying to open up the Hendry debate again. I'm genuinely curious at what point a declining player simply has got to go...irrespective of his salary. I mean, if he's playing worse than a handful of guys we have waiting in AAA, he's just in the way, right? Is salary alone a reason to keep a guy on the roster? At some point do you deal him for <i>whatever</i> portion of his salary the market is willing to take on, just to rid yourself of him? He's not to that point yet but I seriously...can't see him being a reasonable presence on a 25-man roster two or three years from now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I'm on vacation, so I can't get into a huge argument, but I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is "Not a guy whose OPS+ 111, and whose OPS is 30th overall in the league. "

[jstraw]

If we ate 10 million of his salary we can upgrade LF for less than that and come out ahead.

[willis]

<!--quoteo(post=111071:date=Aug 15 2010, 07:46 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If we ate 10 million of his salary we can upgrade LF for less than that and come out ahead.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yep, it would be totally worth it. Bascially the overall culture of this team needs to change and he is a big part of what was, what failed, and what is now holding this team down. If it cost $10 million to dump him it would be worth every dime.

[kbwsb]

<!--quoteo(post=111070:date=Aug 15 2010, 07:40 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Aug 15 2010, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111026:date=Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111019:date=Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 15 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111018:date=Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 15 2010, 12:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111017:date=Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Aug 15 2010, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=111001:date=Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2010, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In his defense, this is a big problem for a lot of teams, not just Hendry. The Indians, for example, have the same situation with Travis Hafner, the Rockies with Todd Helton, the Astros with Carlos Lee....the teams feel as if they have to play these guys, just to justify the gigantic financial outlay, but it means putting a worse team on the field.

Maybe it isn't a fabulous idea to sign guys in their 30's to hundred-million-dollar contracts?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm on vacation, so I can't get into a huge argument, but I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is "Not a guy whose OPS+ 111, and whose OPS is 30th overall in the league. "
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
BT makes a good point...Alf isn't nearly as bad as he was last year, and it's not like we have a 20 year-old LFer in AAA who is blasting the ball. Although an OPS+ of 111 is mediocre for a LF or 1B, we'd still have to find a guy to play there.

As I said in the post above, some teams are in a genuine pickle, though...the Rox <i>need</i> more production out of the 1B position, or they're gonna be golfing in October. But Helton, who just isn't hitting like the Helton of yesteryear, has a contract that's exactly as big as Alf's.

What I'm looking forward to is this same situation cropping up in 2-3 years with Jeter and A-Rod (especially Jeter); they'll have a combined paycheck of $55 or 60 mil, and unless they're supermen who are oblivious to gravity and aging, they'll be sucking.

[willis]

Have you guys seen the article in the tribune about Soriano and it being "too hot"?? His comments are pathetic. I would gladly add by subtraction and eat the hell out of his remaining years and $$ to drop this dude.

[jstraw]

<!--quoteo(post=111141:date=Aug 16 2010, 03:59 PM:name=willis)-->QUOTE (willis @ Aug 16 2010, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Have you guys seen the article in the tribune about Soriano and it being "too hot"?? His comments are pathetic. I would gladly add by subtraction and eat the hell out of his remaining years and $$ to drop this dude.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Link?

[jstraw]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2010-08...ereavement-list

What a woman.

"Two day games, too hot," Soriano said. "So he decided to give me two days off. … it's nothing bothering me in my body right now."

[willis]

I especially like him throwing the team under the bus, blaming the team for his shitty season. Dude needs a fucking mute button and needs to use it more times than not.

[jstraw]

As I said over at BN, saying players have shitty numbers because the team sucks is like saying it's hot out because the ice cream melted. He's an idiot.

[willis]

Yep, he's an idiot who shouldn't say a fucking word ever. He sucks now and is the complete opposite of what this team needs to turn it around in the future.

And watching his bat speed...it just seems so damn slow and he is always behind on these pitches. Dude just threw a slider with the catcher setting up well into the left handed batter's box, and that dumb shit still swung. God I hate him.