12-16-2008, 12:56 AM
I'll bring the discussion over here. I've been tearing down the walls of the virtual reality that NSBB lives in KB, and while I don't think you're delusional like them, I wanted you to see the stats I brought up with them.
I have discussed average with RISP and they have made every attempt possible to try to prove to me that it's useless information. They preach about Dunn and how he has a high OPS, and I argued that OPS isn't always the trump card. If it was, you could stare me in the eye and tell me straight faced that Dunn had a better offensive season last year then Justin Morneau.
So, that's where I went with the argument. There was also a big discussion about RBI being useless for evaluation. They all agreed with me that Morneau had the better season then last year, but couldn't tell me exactly why. So I came up with this post.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Every 2.3 times Morneau came to the plate with RISP (which he had 230 PAs with RISP), he was able to knock in a run.
Dunn, in comparison, was only able to score a runner in every 2.8 plate appearances with RISP (out of 182).
<b>
This is a big reason why I think Morneau had a better season then Dunn.</b>
So, RBI totals do not tell the whole story, I agree. Sometimes a player cannot help if his team gets into scoring position enough to help him to drive up RBI totals. However, when given a good opportunity to drive in a runner, Morneau was able to judge the situation and do what he had to do to get a runner in more often then Dunn. This takes the whole "RBIs is a team stat" argument and normalizes it to show what a specific player can do in the given situation.
Now, given the fact that Dunn's number was 2.8, I'm actually fairly impressed. It's still not on par with what most of the run producers are capable of (many that I've researched are at 2.5 plate appearances per RBI), but Dunn performed well above his career mark in this stat which is 3.4. Does that mean he's evolving his game? Maybe, and if that's the case I can be more receptive to the idea of bringing him in.
Just think a little bit more about these things guys. OBP and SLG don't tell the whole story about how effective a player is. Hell, OPS+ either for that matter. In fact, no stat can tell you the whole story. But, collecting a greater variety of data can help more to understand how a player performs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just wanted to toot my own horn and offer up a different perspective then the same old "OBP vs. Avg." argument.
I have discussed average with RISP and they have made every attempt possible to try to prove to me that it's useless information. They preach about Dunn and how he has a high OPS, and I argued that OPS isn't always the trump card. If it was, you could stare me in the eye and tell me straight faced that Dunn had a better offensive season last year then Justin Morneau.
So, that's where I went with the argument. There was also a big discussion about RBI being useless for evaluation. They all agreed with me that Morneau had the better season then last year, but couldn't tell me exactly why. So I came up with this post.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Every 2.3 times Morneau came to the plate with RISP (which he had 230 PAs with RISP), he was able to knock in a run.
Dunn, in comparison, was only able to score a runner in every 2.8 plate appearances with RISP (out of 182).
<b>
This is a big reason why I think Morneau had a better season then Dunn.</b>
So, RBI totals do not tell the whole story, I agree. Sometimes a player cannot help if his team gets into scoring position enough to help him to drive up RBI totals. However, when given a good opportunity to drive in a runner, Morneau was able to judge the situation and do what he had to do to get a runner in more often then Dunn. This takes the whole "RBIs is a team stat" argument and normalizes it to show what a specific player can do in the given situation.
Now, given the fact that Dunn's number was 2.8, I'm actually fairly impressed. It's still not on par with what most of the run producers are capable of (many that I've researched are at 2.5 plate appearances per RBI), but Dunn performed well above his career mark in this stat which is 3.4. Does that mean he's evolving his game? Maybe, and if that's the case I can be more receptive to the idea of bringing him in.
Just think a little bit more about these things guys. OBP and SLG don't tell the whole story about how effective a player is. Hell, OPS+ either for that matter. In fact, no stat can tell you the whole story. But, collecting a greater variety of data can help more to understand how a player performs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just wanted to toot my own horn and offer up a different perspective then the same old "OBP vs. Avg." argument.