12-15-2008, 01:37 AM
<!--quoteo(post=4761:date=Dec 14 2008, 11:03 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 14 2008, 11:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=4759:date=Dec 14 2008, 10:48 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 14 2008, 10:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate to get into these Adam Dunn discussions, but I can see why they always generate so much passion...he's a really polarizing figure, and he seems to embody a lot of traits that play well into the scout-vs-stat opinions.
<!--coloro:#8b0000--><!--/coloro-->Savan<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->t:yes, Ricciardi used to work for Beane in Oakland, but his work in Toronto has been mystifying...perhaps he never really believed in the Beane approach, and just used Beane's coattails to land the plum Blue Jay job. By contrast, DePodesta was also a Beane minion before the Dodger GM gig, but he used his office to <i>really</i> put into play a lot of sabermetric stuff. I think he made the playoffs one year, then got axed the next.
<!--coloro:#4b0082--><!--/coloro-->Scarey<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->: I'm not ignoring you, but how can I respond to someone who insinuated that a career .416 OBP with RISP sucks? Stan Musial's career OBP? .416.
That number is better than the career OBP numbers of Wade Boggs, Willie Mays, Manny, A-Rod, DiMaggio...uh, ...let's just say it's a damn high number. His low batting avg. in the same sitch is actually quite close to his career batting average.
You framed your post with a real-world situation, so I will do the same...kind of what would be a typical scenario if he were on the Cubs: Soriano leads off with a double, Theriot strikes out. Up comes Dunn, and while you're hoping for an RBI single, or a "productive out," (which is an oxymoron, and most baseball propeller-heads believe does not exist) Dunn fucking...WALKS.
What an asshole!
So now you have a man on first and second, with 2 power hitters coming up, D Lee and Aramis. How is this a bad situation?
<!--coloro:#2e8b57--><!--/coloro-->rok<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->: I agree that if the Cubs were in the AL, I'd be much more comfortable about Dunn, Abreu, Bradley, etc. as a DH instead of a regular OF.
But we're not. So you have to decide if Dunn's massive offensive production is outweighed by his definite shortcomings with the glove. I don't think they are, but I would guess that Jim is in agreement with you.
Which brings me to the main point: Jim doesn't dig the Dunn type. So this is all a moot point, DESPITE the news-rumor that Dunn's agent has begged for an interview because the <!--coloro:#0000ff--><!--/coloro-->Cubs<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc--> are supposedly Dunn's #1 choice.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You want him to be the guy driving in the runs in that situation. Sure a walk's not a bad thing usually, but he should be up there looking to hit and get the run in, not take a walk. That's been part of our problem I think in recent years(especially in the playoffs the last 2 years), sitting back and waiting for the 3-run homer, rather than just executing the fundamentals to get a run in with a runner on 3rd base and less than 2 outs for example. And then if you take the walk, you've set them up for a double play in this situation.
Actually, one guy is who is a good example of how to hit in these situations is somebody we talked about already today, Garret Anderson.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tis true. While Dunn did just make the pitcher throw more pitches and added a baserunner with the potential to be a run, he also didn't just go ahead and get a run in. He, then, risks Lee grounding into another inning ending double play. Basically, he is adding more variables to getting a run scored by taking a walk as opposed to just trying to drive in a run.
Calculated aggressiveness is a necessity when you have baserunners ahead of you. And a baserunner is only a run when they cross the plate.
<!--coloro:#8b0000--><!--/coloro-->Savan<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->t:yes, Ricciardi used to work for Beane in Oakland, but his work in Toronto has been mystifying...perhaps he never really believed in the Beane approach, and just used Beane's coattails to land the plum Blue Jay job. By contrast, DePodesta was also a Beane minion before the Dodger GM gig, but he used his office to <i>really</i> put into play a lot of sabermetric stuff. I think he made the playoffs one year, then got axed the next.
<!--coloro:#4b0082--><!--/coloro-->Scarey<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->: I'm not ignoring you, but how can I respond to someone who insinuated that a career .416 OBP with RISP sucks? Stan Musial's career OBP? .416.
That number is better than the career OBP numbers of Wade Boggs, Willie Mays, Manny, A-Rod, DiMaggio...uh, ...let's just say it's a damn high number. His low batting avg. in the same sitch is actually quite close to his career batting average.
You framed your post with a real-world situation, so I will do the same...kind of what would be a typical scenario if he were on the Cubs: Soriano leads off with a double, Theriot strikes out. Up comes Dunn, and while you're hoping for an RBI single, or a "productive out," (which is an oxymoron, and most baseball propeller-heads believe does not exist) Dunn fucking...WALKS.
What an asshole!
So now you have a man on first and second, with 2 power hitters coming up, D Lee and Aramis. How is this a bad situation?
<!--coloro:#2e8b57--><!--/coloro-->rok<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->: I agree that if the Cubs were in the AL, I'd be much more comfortable about Dunn, Abreu, Bradley, etc. as a DH instead of a regular OF.
But we're not. So you have to decide if Dunn's massive offensive production is outweighed by his definite shortcomings with the glove. I don't think they are, but I would guess that Jim is in agreement with you.
Which brings me to the main point: Jim doesn't dig the Dunn type. So this is all a moot point, DESPITE the news-rumor that Dunn's agent has begged for an interview because the <!--coloro:#0000ff--><!--/coloro-->Cubs<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc--> are supposedly Dunn's #1 choice.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You want him to be the guy driving in the runs in that situation. Sure a walk's not a bad thing usually, but he should be up there looking to hit and get the run in, not take a walk. That's been part of our problem I think in recent years(especially in the playoffs the last 2 years), sitting back and waiting for the 3-run homer, rather than just executing the fundamentals to get a run in with a runner on 3rd base and less than 2 outs for example. And then if you take the walk, you've set them up for a double play in this situation.
Actually, one guy is who is a good example of how to hit in these situations is somebody we talked about already today, Garret Anderson.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Tis true. While Dunn did just make the pitcher throw more pitches and added a baserunner with the potential to be a run, he also didn't just go ahead and get a run in. He, then, risks Lee grounding into another inning ending double play. Basically, he is adding more variables to getting a run scored by taking a walk as opposed to just trying to drive in a run.
Calculated aggressiveness is a necessity when you have baserunners ahead of you. And a baserunner is only a run when they cross the plate.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy