12-29-2009, 05:43 PM
<!--quoteo(post=73282:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:59 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73266:date=Dec 29 2009, 03:33 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 03:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73255:date=Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 29 2009, 01:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73253:date=Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Dec 29 2009, 02:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Who are the really good left handed relievers that the market is paying less than a million a year for?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I never said there were good left handed relievers that the market is paying less thana million a year for. There could be, but I don't know off the top of my head. I said I would rather pay less than a million for mediocre production than more than 3.5 million on mediocre production (IE Grabow).
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sean Marshall.
You're putting words in my mouth BT. Please don't.
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What words did I put in your mouth?
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You implied that I thought good lefty relievers are worth less than a million dollars. I never said that. I think you mistook my point which was that Grabow isn't a good lefty reliever.
You also implied that I thought Gaub was the obvious no risk answer to the Cubs lefty reliever need. The short answer would be Sean Marshall is the answer there.
The long answer would be Sean Marshall is solid lefty reliever and is all the Cubs bullpen <b>needs</b> in terms of left handed relief pitchers. However, Gaub could be the icing on the cake if he turns a fraction of his potential into results for the Cubs next year. Do you know how many pitchers have averaged 13 strikeouts per nine innings pitched in the minors? I could only find two out of a random list of recent strikeout pitchers off the top of my head. Mark Prior and Tim Lincecum. Both of whom had less than 10 games pitched in the minors. KRod hit 12Ks per nine and Wood just over 11Ks per nine.
To me, it makes sense to go with the steady guy in Marshall and take a risk on the other guy that you don't necessarily need but could be dominant if given a chance who costs next to nothing rather than spending 3.5 million on another guy that's steady but worse than Marshall.
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No, I implied that you thought we were paying too much for Grabow. Which you did. I also never claimed you said Gaub was no risk. My point was two fold. And it's now 3 fold.
One. People keep bitching about signing a lefty reliever to a 3.5 million dollar contract. Well, I have news for you. That's the going rate for a lefty reliever. It may be wrong. It may be "too much". But that is what a lefty reliever will cost you. Unless you decide to fill from within. Which brings me to....
Two. In a perfect world Gaub WILL come in and fill the lefty spot for us. I'm desperately hoping he will. I think he can. But that doesn't mean he WILL. There was a time where I thought Juan Mateo was can't miss. And if Gaub can't, and if Hendry had decided to fill from within, there is no one left. Or, exactly where we found ourselves last year. Unless they go by what you suggested and turn to Marshall. Which brings me to...
Three. Sean Marshall was an effective starter, pushed out of the rotation by the fact we had too many starters. If it's your plan that instead of signing Grabow to what was, at worst, a market level contract, we should turn a young, effective, lefty starter into our situational lefty out of the bullpen, a LOOGY, I'd argue that perhaps it's not the most effective use of resources. As of right now, he is insurance against injuries from our starters, and if he is not needed, he is valuable trade bait. Without Grabow, he is a guy who we need in the pen to keep the other team honest, but will only pitch 30-40 innings.
I don't think it's insane for Hendry to have hedged against that by signing Grabow.
I never said there were good left handed relievers that the market is paying less thana million a year for. There could be, but I don't know off the top of my head. I said I would rather pay less than a million for mediocre production than more than 3.5 million on mediocre production (IE Grabow).
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->And if we didn't sign Grabow, and on the .000000000001 percent chance that Gaub ISN'T the answer, whom should we be using in that spot?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sean Marshall.
You're putting words in my mouth BT. Please don't.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What words did I put in your mouth?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You implied that I thought good lefty relievers are worth less than a million dollars. I never said that. I think you mistook my point which was that Grabow isn't a good lefty reliever.
You also implied that I thought Gaub was the obvious no risk answer to the Cubs lefty reliever need. The short answer would be Sean Marshall is the answer there.
The long answer would be Sean Marshall is solid lefty reliever and is all the Cubs bullpen <b>needs</b> in terms of left handed relief pitchers. However, Gaub could be the icing on the cake if he turns a fraction of his potential into results for the Cubs next year. Do you know how many pitchers have averaged 13 strikeouts per nine innings pitched in the minors? I could only find two out of a random list of recent strikeout pitchers off the top of my head. Mark Prior and Tim Lincecum. Both of whom had less than 10 games pitched in the minors. KRod hit 12Ks per nine and Wood just over 11Ks per nine.
To me, it makes sense to go with the steady guy in Marshall and take a risk on the other guy that you don't necessarily need but could be dominant if given a chance who costs next to nothing rather than spending 3.5 million on another guy that's steady but worse than Marshall.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I implied that you thought we were paying too much for Grabow. Which you did. I also never claimed you said Gaub was no risk. My point was two fold. And it's now 3 fold.
One. People keep bitching about signing a lefty reliever to a 3.5 million dollar contract. Well, I have news for you. That's the going rate for a lefty reliever. It may be wrong. It may be "too much". But that is what a lefty reliever will cost you. Unless you decide to fill from within. Which brings me to....
Two. In a perfect world Gaub WILL come in and fill the lefty spot for us. I'm desperately hoping he will. I think he can. But that doesn't mean he WILL. There was a time where I thought Juan Mateo was can't miss. And if Gaub can't, and if Hendry had decided to fill from within, there is no one left. Or, exactly where we found ourselves last year. Unless they go by what you suggested and turn to Marshall. Which brings me to...
Three. Sean Marshall was an effective starter, pushed out of the rotation by the fact we had too many starters. If it's your plan that instead of signing Grabow to what was, at worst, a market level contract, we should turn a young, effective, lefty starter into our situational lefty out of the bullpen, a LOOGY, I'd argue that perhaps it's not the most effective use of resources. As of right now, he is insurance against injuries from our starters, and if he is not needed, he is valuable trade bait. Without Grabow, he is a guy who we need in the pen to keep the other team honest, but will only pitch 30-40 innings.
I don't think it's insane for Hendry to have hedged against that by signing Grabow.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.