12-27-2009, 04:31 PM
<!--quoteo(post=73015:date=Dec 27 2009, 12:26 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 27 2009, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73012:date=Dec 27 2009, 11:19 AM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 27 2009, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73011:date=Dec 27 2009, 08:18 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 27 2009, 08:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=73008:date=Dec 27 2009, 12:31 AM:name=cherp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cherp @ Dec 27 2009, 12:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm sorry - must be Hendry's fault that half his lineup was hurt (Aramis, Lee, Soriano and Soto) or completely underperformed expectations (Nutty Milton).
Hendry put together a team that should have won a lot of games last year. He was missing exactly what you say he shouldn't have gone after (a strong veteran reliever to support a young pen (Gregg was a disaster).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cherp makes some goods points, with the exception of the bullpen point - as Scarey pointed out - and these two points.
Just want to note, cherp, that of course it was Hendry's fault that Milton underperformed. Everyone knew that Milton was deeply flawed, both as a teammate and as a player in the National League. Hendry took the risk, and it back-fired. How is that not Hendry's fault?
Second, you can't on the one hand use Gregg's failure as a closer/reliever for the Cubs as support for the notion that Hendry should go out and get relievers and on the other hand completely ignore that Hendry CHOSE to go out and get Gregg in the first place.
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Ace - I agree with your point. But in my opinion, those are calculated gambles. They were moves that could have worked and may not have. I wasnt around when Milton signed, but was there a large # of people who said it was a bad signing? And Greggs failure shouldn't deter JH from doing the right thing in the future. A pen cant live on kids alone.
Scarey - I agree there are SOME candidates out there. I just hate seeing teams count on their farm to make a pen. That often blows up ij their face. (agreee - so does signing guys.)
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I don't know that you really know how good some of these arms are.
All of these guys have career minor league ERAs of 3.30 or better, have 9.0 K/9 or better, and have averaged 0.5 HRs/9. Those are damn good peripherals. The only thing that worries me about any of these guys is Maine has an inordinate amount of hits/9 which is very unusual for a guy that strikes out 10 per 9 innings..
Blake Parker
Jeff Stevens
John Gaub
Scott Maine
Esmailin Caridad has ok K/9 numbers. What's impressive about him though is he picked up 3-4 MPH on his fastball (which has a lot of movement on it) when he was coming out of the bullpen for the Cubs last year when he was called up. Also, the guy doesn't give out free passes.
Jeff Gray I'm skeptical about. His peripherals aren't anything special other than his great control. He had success out of the A's bullpen last year so who knows.
Alex Maestri has decent numbers. What's intriguing about him is his Michael Wuertz-esque slider. Wuertz and Marmol have proven that a top notch slider can bring you success at the major leagues (as long as your fastball is decent).
Justin Berg is hardly worth mentioning, but he did have good success at AAA coming out of the bullpen for the first time in his career.
James Russell had some success after a few years in the crapper. Like Berg and Gray, I'm not too high on him. But, if you catch one of these guys on a hot streak, that's all you really need for a bullpen arm.
What's great about a lot of these guys is they have been groomed to be late inning relief pitchers. I have to think that three of them would be able to stick on the major league roster. As it is, a lot of these guys are already taking up the 40 man roster. Why keep them around if you're just going to buy bullpen arms?
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Scarey, admittedly, I know very little about these guys. You just probably told me more than I knew before. I'm not as educated on the Cubs farm system as I used to be (twin 3 year olds have robbed me from my baseball time). But no matter how good they are, baseball pitching prospects are just that...prospects. It's entirely possible that all of them end up washing out. It's possible that a few deliver - but you know that it is significantly more likely that each one is a bust. And unfortunately, there is no correlation between one and another, so you can't say that if you have a 10% chance of making it, and you have 10 guys, that one will...sure - the odds say you might, but each individual still only has a 10% chance. (and the number 10% is just yanked from my ass - it is probably much lower - since I know nothing about these guys.
Hendry put together a team that should have won a lot of games last year. He was missing exactly what you say he shouldn't have gone after (a strong veteran reliever to support a young pen (Gregg was a disaster).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cherp makes some goods points, with the exception of the bullpen point - as Scarey pointed out - and these two points.
Just want to note, cherp, that of course it was Hendry's fault that Milton underperformed. Everyone knew that Milton was deeply flawed, both as a teammate and as a player in the National League. Hendry took the risk, and it back-fired. How is that not Hendry's fault?
Second, you can't on the one hand use Gregg's failure as a closer/reliever for the Cubs as support for the notion that Hendry should go out and get relievers and on the other hand completely ignore that Hendry CHOSE to go out and get Gregg in the first place.
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Ace - I agree with your point. But in my opinion, those are calculated gambles. They were moves that could have worked and may not have. I wasnt around when Milton signed, but was there a large # of people who said it was a bad signing? And Greggs failure shouldn't deter JH from doing the right thing in the future. A pen cant live on kids alone.
Scarey - I agree there are SOME candidates out there. I just hate seeing teams count on their farm to make a pen. That often blows up ij their face. (agreee - so does signing guys.)
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I don't know that you really know how good some of these arms are.
All of these guys have career minor league ERAs of 3.30 or better, have 9.0 K/9 or better, and have averaged 0.5 HRs/9. Those are damn good peripherals. The only thing that worries me about any of these guys is Maine has an inordinate amount of hits/9 which is very unusual for a guy that strikes out 10 per 9 innings..
Blake Parker
Jeff Stevens
John Gaub
Scott Maine
Esmailin Caridad has ok K/9 numbers. What's impressive about him though is he picked up 3-4 MPH on his fastball (which has a lot of movement on it) when he was coming out of the bullpen for the Cubs last year when he was called up. Also, the guy doesn't give out free passes.
Jeff Gray I'm skeptical about. His peripherals aren't anything special other than his great control. He had success out of the A's bullpen last year so who knows.
Alex Maestri has decent numbers. What's intriguing about him is his Michael Wuertz-esque slider. Wuertz and Marmol have proven that a top notch slider can bring you success at the major leagues (as long as your fastball is decent).
Justin Berg is hardly worth mentioning, but he did have good success at AAA coming out of the bullpen for the first time in his career.
James Russell had some success after a few years in the crapper. Like Berg and Gray, I'm not too high on him. But, if you catch one of these guys on a hot streak, that's all you really need for a bullpen arm.
What's great about a lot of these guys is they have been groomed to be late inning relief pitchers. I have to think that three of them would be able to stick on the major league roster. As it is, a lot of these guys are already taking up the 40 man roster. Why keep them around if you're just going to buy bullpen arms?
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Scarey, admittedly, I know very little about these guys. You just probably told me more than I knew before. I'm not as educated on the Cubs farm system as I used to be (twin 3 year olds have robbed me from my baseball time). But no matter how good they are, baseball pitching prospects are just that...prospects. It's entirely possible that all of them end up washing out. It's possible that a few deliver - but you know that it is significantly more likely that each one is a bust. And unfortunately, there is no correlation between one and another, so you can't say that if you have a 10% chance of making it, and you have 10 guys, that one will...sure - the odds say you might, but each individual still only has a 10% chance. (and the number 10% is just yanked from my ass - it is probably much lower - since I know nothing about these guys.