09-30-2009, 07:15 PM
<!--quoteo(post=64850:date=Sep 30 2009, 05:06 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Sep 30 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=64846:date=Sep 30 2009, 04:57 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Sep 30 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Here's the problem: how do you trust that they can determine the degree in which a ball is playable consistently or any better than just some random guy with a much smaller sample size?
I can't wait til that defense-camera-majig that Butcher showed comes out.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, they <i>have</i> refined it quite a bit over the years. It now takes into account wet grass, bad hops, the spin on the ball, whether another fielder is impeding their view, and a lot of other things.
I believe that it's getting more accurate.
As for judging a 1st baseman, it does take into account scoops on in-the-dirt throws, high throws, fielding the bunt, making a catch on a pop foul close to, or IN to the stands, underhanded throws to the pitcher covering 1st, etc.
Thus, it seems to me to be a pretty good indicator of how well a 1st sacker does with the glove.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingb...erview.asp
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Derrek Lee has won a Gold Glove in two of the last three years. How is it that he’s fielded 13 fewer balls than could be expected of an average major league first baseman in that time? That’s what the Plus/Minus System number of -13 for Derrek Lee means. (Technically, the meaning is slightly different, but I’ll explain that later). The American League Gold Glover this year was Mark Teixeira, whose +17 was the best in baseball. Why is it that the National League Gold Glover comes out at -13 over three years? OK, so his 2005 number is +2. That doesn’t seem very good for the Gold Glove winner.
Well, this is the weakest position for the Plus/Minus System. Most defensive measures have trouble with first basemen. Putouts simply tell you how many groundouts were hit against the team, more a function of the pitchers and other infielders. First baseman assists might have some meaning, but there is no real consensus about what, and they are not reliable as an indicator of range due to the discretionary nature of the play on which the great majority of first base assists occur, the 3-1 flip. Some first basemen just prefer to step on the bag themselves. There are no range factors at first base. <b>While we are measuring very meaningful information on first basemen in the Plus/Minus System, we are missing one huge element: the ability to handle throws, especially of the errant variety, made by the other infielders. That’s a place where Derrek Lee really excels, perhaps.</b> He saves many an error for his fellow infielders, and it’s this ability that takes him a long way towards his Gold Gloves—or at least there is the perception that this is true.
<b>Another defensive element that is not measured by plus/minus, but we are measuring in this book, is the handling of bunts.</b> Over three years, Lee has the second highest score among first basemen in handling bunts. (See Fielding Bunts article on page 211.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't wait til that defense-camera-majig that Butcher showed comes out.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, they <i>have</i> refined it quite a bit over the years. It now takes into account wet grass, bad hops, the spin on the ball, whether another fielder is impeding their view, and a lot of other things.
I believe that it's getting more accurate.
As for judging a 1st baseman, it does take into account scoops on in-the-dirt throws, high throws, fielding the bunt, making a catch on a pop foul close to, or IN to the stands, underhanded throws to the pitcher covering 1st, etc.
Thus, it seems to me to be a pretty good indicator of how well a 1st sacker does with the glove.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingb...erview.asp
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Derrek Lee has won a Gold Glove in two of the last three years. How is it that he’s fielded 13 fewer balls than could be expected of an average major league first baseman in that time? That’s what the Plus/Minus System number of -13 for Derrek Lee means. (Technically, the meaning is slightly different, but I’ll explain that later). The American League Gold Glover this year was Mark Teixeira, whose +17 was the best in baseball. Why is it that the National League Gold Glover comes out at -13 over three years? OK, so his 2005 number is +2. That doesn’t seem very good for the Gold Glove winner.
Well, this is the weakest position for the Plus/Minus System. Most defensive measures have trouble with first basemen. Putouts simply tell you how many groundouts were hit against the team, more a function of the pitchers and other infielders. First baseman assists might have some meaning, but there is no real consensus about what, and they are not reliable as an indicator of range due to the discretionary nature of the play on which the great majority of first base assists occur, the 3-1 flip. Some first basemen just prefer to step on the bag themselves. There are no range factors at first base. <b>While we are measuring very meaningful information on first basemen in the Plus/Minus System, we are missing one huge element: the ability to handle throws, especially of the errant variety, made by the other infielders. That’s a place where Derrek Lee really excels, perhaps.</b> He saves many an error for his fellow infielders, and it’s this ability that takes him a long way towards his Gold Gloves—or at least there is the perception that this is true.
<b>Another defensive element that is not measured by plus/minus, but we are measuring in this book, is the handling of bunts.</b> Over three years, Lee has the second highest score among first basemen in handling bunts. (See Fielding Bunts article on page 211.)<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->