12-08-2008, 12:00 PM
<!--quoteo(post=2155:date=Dec 8 2008, 09:59 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Dec 8 2008, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2135:date=Dec 8 2008, 08:27 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Dec 8 2008, 08:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2098:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 7 2008, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2089:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Dec 7 2008, 09:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=2086:date=Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Dec 7 2008, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Was Dlee unclutch in 05 when he hit 46 homers and and only had 107 rbi?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. He had a .331 average with RISP and drove in 64 of those runs with RISP.
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You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.
Do you think Ryan Howard would have so many RBI if Rollins and Utley weren't hitting in fornt opf him. Put Howard in San Fran's lineup and see how many RBIs he would have had.
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i bet he'd still drive in 120 runs. run producers drive in runs no matter who bats before them or after them. rbi are more than a team stat.
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Is Barry Bonds a "run producer"?
In 22 Major League seasons, Bonds drove in 120 runs exactly 4 times. That includes 5 different years in which he hit more than 40 home runs, and did not have 120 RBI, and 4 years in which he won the MVP without driving in 120. Putting aside for the moment HOW Bonds did what he did (steroids), the fact is he is, along with Pujols, the preeminent run producer of our time. The idea that because he didn't hit an arbitrary number like 120 RBI somehow means he wasn't "clutch" is preposterous.
RBI's are a nice stat, but since virtually every study I've seen suggests there is no such thing as a "clutch" hitter, I'll continue to look at RBI as a context driven stat. That doesn't make it useless, but if every other stat tells me a guy can hit, I'll forgive him for a low RBI total.
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BT might be the smartest guy on this site.
Other than me, of course.
Yes. He had a .331 average with RISP and drove in 64 of those runs with RISP.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just pointed out why RBIs are not the best stat to evaluate a player.
Do you think Ryan Howard would have so many RBI if Rollins and Utley weren't hitting in fornt opf him. Put Howard in San Fran's lineup and see how many RBIs he would have had.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i bet he'd still drive in 120 runs. run producers drive in runs no matter who bats before them or after them. rbi are more than a team stat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is Barry Bonds a "run producer"?
In 22 Major League seasons, Bonds drove in 120 runs exactly 4 times. That includes 5 different years in which he hit more than 40 home runs, and did not have 120 RBI, and 4 years in which he won the MVP without driving in 120. Putting aside for the moment HOW Bonds did what he did (steroids), the fact is he is, along with Pujols, the preeminent run producer of our time. The idea that because he didn't hit an arbitrary number like 120 RBI somehow means he wasn't "clutch" is preposterous.
RBI's are a nice stat, but since virtually every study I've seen suggests there is no such thing as a "clutch" hitter, I'll continue to look at RBI as a context driven stat. That doesn't make it useless, but if every other stat tells me a guy can hit, I'll forgive him for a low RBI total.
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BT might be the smartest guy on this site.
Other than me, of course.