01-20-2009, 08:47 PM
<!--quoteo(post=12609:date=Jan 20 2009, 06:34 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 20 2009, 06:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12552:date=Jan 20 2009, 12:27 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Jan 20 2009, 12:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12484:date=Jan 20 2009, 01:46 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jan 20 2009, 01:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12447:date=Jan 19 2009, 06:43 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Jan 19 2009, 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12444:date=Jan 19 2009, 06:18 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jan 19 2009, 06:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12427:date=Jan 19 2009, 03:32 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 19 2009, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=12424:date=Jan 19 2009, 02:56 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Jan 19 2009, 02:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->That would *really* suck. It would also ensure that only wealthy people and ticket brokers had season tickets.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. This could actually decrease the cost of tickets on the secondary market if more fall into the hands of ticket scalpers.
<!--quoteo(post=12422:date=Jan 19 2009, 02:41 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 19 2009, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->That's one of the most despicable ideas ever. I'm all for generating new types of revenue, but this creates instant price inflation and squeezes out a lot of families from ever going to games. It was getting bad enough already. Shit, I already don't go to the ballpark as much as I used to. If this keeps up, I may go just once a season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree Rok. Inflation is caused by supply and demand. The curve already indicates that season tickets are vastly underpriced. The only people this will effect are season ticket holders. It shouldn't effect the price of tickets in the secondary market. I would argue that <i>most</i> families can't afford season tickets already. Most families will go to a handful of games (maybe just 1 or 2) during the season by purchasing single game tickets when they go on sale, or by purchasing them from the secondary market.
If anything, price on the secondary market will be driven downward because the ticket scalper supply will increase. I believe prices will remain the same though.
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Yeah, the scalper supply may increase, but they will be getting those tickets at a higher cost. A cost they'll pass on to the end user.
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That's what I'm talking about.
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But that's is totally against economic principal. The supply/demand curve will set the price. Supply is fixed, so the demand is what will determine the price of tickets. If scalpers increase their price it will decrease demand and they will be stuck with the tickets. The price will be determined by how much the consumer is willing to pay for the ticket. The face ticket price and personal seat license charges has little to do with secondary market for tickets. Furthermore, if the Cubs raised tickets prices to match demand they could cut the secondary market out altogether because there wouldn't be any profit for the scalpers.
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You're assuming elastic demand to prices under a normal S/D relationship for commodities and such. Cubs ticket demand has proven to be strongly inelastic to prices for the past 25 years. Sorry, but your reasoning doesn't hold up in special cases like these.
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We'll just have to disagree then. Do you think a fan will be willing to pay more for a ticket just because a ticket scalper had to pay a seat license? The price of the ticket will be determined by demand alone. If it is raining, or the Cubs suck, the ticket prices will go down. If the Cubs are winning and it's a sunny Saturday in July, the ticket prices will be very high. This has nothing to do with what the scalper has invested in the tickets.
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Dude, I majored in econ, and it strikes me that you're describing the Cubs as though they are a typical commodity. They are NOT. Supply and Demand have pretty much been fixed with regard to the Cubs for the better part of 3 decades, so demand dictates almost nothing in this case. In normal cases (say the White Sox) yes, but not in the case of the Cubs. Prices are dictated by the what the organization believes they should be, and all things being equal, if they decide to add a license fee on top of the existing prices (which I can't imagine will go down), you'd better believe that scalpers will pass along the difference to consumers.
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Rok, I also majored in econ. You are a smart guy and we aren't going to see eye to eye on this. But I will say that demand is most definitely not fixed. Demand is tied to how well the Cubs play, the weather, pitching matchups, team we're playing and so on. Supply is most definitely fixed. Since tickets are underpriced based on the supply/demand curve (thus a secondary market) than demand is what drives the prices.
I agree. This could actually decrease the cost of tickets on the secondary market if more fall into the hands of ticket scalpers.
<!--quoteo(post=12422:date=Jan 19 2009, 02:41 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 19 2009, 02:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->That's one of the most despicable ideas ever. I'm all for generating new types of revenue, but this creates instant price inflation and squeezes out a lot of families from ever going to games. It was getting bad enough already. Shit, I already don't go to the ballpark as much as I used to. If this keeps up, I may go just once a season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree Rok. Inflation is caused by supply and demand. The curve already indicates that season tickets are vastly underpriced. The only people this will effect are season ticket holders. It shouldn't effect the price of tickets in the secondary market. I would argue that <i>most</i> families can't afford season tickets already. Most families will go to a handful of games (maybe just 1 or 2) during the season by purchasing single game tickets when they go on sale, or by purchasing them from the secondary market.
If anything, price on the secondary market will be driven downward because the ticket scalper supply will increase. I believe prices will remain the same though.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, the scalper supply may increase, but they will be getting those tickets at a higher cost. A cost they'll pass on to the end user.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's what I'm talking about.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But that's is totally against economic principal. The supply/demand curve will set the price. Supply is fixed, so the demand is what will determine the price of tickets. If scalpers increase their price it will decrease demand and they will be stuck with the tickets. The price will be determined by how much the consumer is willing to pay for the ticket. The face ticket price and personal seat license charges has little to do with secondary market for tickets. Furthermore, if the Cubs raised tickets prices to match demand they could cut the secondary market out altogether because there wouldn't be any profit for the scalpers.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're assuming elastic demand to prices under a normal S/D relationship for commodities and such. Cubs ticket demand has proven to be strongly inelastic to prices for the past 25 years. Sorry, but your reasoning doesn't hold up in special cases like these.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We'll just have to disagree then. Do you think a fan will be willing to pay more for a ticket just because a ticket scalper had to pay a seat license? The price of the ticket will be determined by demand alone. If it is raining, or the Cubs suck, the ticket prices will go down. If the Cubs are winning and it's a sunny Saturday in July, the ticket prices will be very high. This has nothing to do with what the scalper has invested in the tickets.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, I majored in econ, and it strikes me that you're describing the Cubs as though they are a typical commodity. They are NOT. Supply and Demand have pretty much been fixed with regard to the Cubs for the better part of 3 decades, so demand dictates almost nothing in this case. In normal cases (say the White Sox) yes, but not in the case of the Cubs. Prices are dictated by the what the organization believes they should be, and all things being equal, if they decide to add a license fee on top of the existing prices (which I can't imagine will go down), you'd better believe that scalpers will pass along the difference to consumers.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rok, I also majored in econ. You are a smart guy and we aren't going to see eye to eye on this. But I will say that demand is most definitely not fixed. Demand is tied to how well the Cubs play, the weather, pitching matchups, team we're playing and so on. Supply is most definitely fixed. Since tickets are underpriced based on the supply/demand curve (thus a secondary market) than demand is what drives the prices.