01-14-2009, 06:02 PM
<!--quoteo(post=11581:date=Jan 14 2009, 03:58 PM:name=Giff)-->QUOTE (Giff @ Jan 14 2009, 03:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11575:date=Jan 14 2009, 03:48 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jan 14 2009, 03:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=11571:date=Jan 14 2009, 03:22 PM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ Jan 14 2009, 03:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There's actually a reasonable argument that Koufax shouldn't be in the HOF. I don't agree with it, but it's definitely there.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not even arguing that though. It's fine if someone doesn't think Koufax should be in there. But if they think the Hall should be THAT selective, then talking about Dale Murphy is an obvious non-starter. It's pointless to argue 3rd tier guys, if you don't think 2nd tier guys should get in.
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Yeah, I wasn't really speaking to anyone in particular, just making a comment. Because the general thought seems to be that he's as much of a lock as there is, but when you look at things he's really not.
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The only argument that you can make is that he only pitched 12 seasons and didn't have enough wins (whatever "enough" means). But if you look at his pedigree, it eclipses his longevity issues by far. And longevity, while a legitimate consideration, isn't the only thing to consider.
- 6 All-Star games
- 3 World Series rings
- 3 Cy Young Awards
- 1 MVP Award (how many pitchers have won an MVP?)
- 2 World Series MVPs
- 4 no-hitters (including a perfect game)
If Koufax doesn't belong in the Hall, then you need to throw out every other pitcher except maybe Bob Gibson, Cy Young, Walter Johnson, and Tom Seaver. And you can probably let Maddux in when he's eligible.
I'm not even arguing that though. It's fine if someone doesn't think Koufax should be in there. But if they think the Hall should be THAT selective, then talking about Dale Murphy is an obvious non-starter. It's pointless to argue 3rd tier guys, if you don't think 2nd tier guys should get in.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I wasn't really speaking to anyone in particular, just making a comment. Because the general thought seems to be that he's as much of a lock as there is, but when you look at things he's really not.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only argument that you can make is that he only pitched 12 seasons and didn't have enough wins (whatever "enough" means). But if you look at his pedigree, it eclipses his longevity issues by far. And longevity, while a legitimate consideration, isn't the only thing to consider.
- 6 All-Star games
- 3 World Series rings
- 3 Cy Young Awards
- 1 MVP Award (how many pitchers have won an MVP?)
- 2 World Series MVPs
- 4 no-hitters (including a perfect game)
If Koufax doesn't belong in the Hall, then you need to throw out every other pitcher except maybe Bob Gibson, Cy Young, Walter Johnson, and Tom Seaver. And you can probably let Maddux in when he's eligible.