01-06-2009, 05:53 AM
<!--quoteo(post=9283:date=Jan 6 2009, 01:39 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 6 2009, 01:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9273:date=Jan 6 2009, 12:01 AM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 6 2009, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9268:date=Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When dealing with players as old as Ibanez, it's not relevant to factor in how he did years ago. His age has a major effect on his fielding, especially his range. yeah, he had decent range in 2006. In 2006, Alf stole 41 bases. Think either of them are gonna match their '06 numbers next season?
Go look up the grades by The Fielding Bible for last year. Ibanez was the 3rd worst LFer in baseball according to their unbelievably thorough analysis. Worse than Manny. Dunn wasn't even listed in 2008 as being one of the bad LFers (although he <i>was</i> near the top/bottom of that list in previous years.)
It's a moot point as far as the Cubs are concerned. But I'd rather have the 28 year old, improving-with-the-glove Dunn in the field than the 37 year-old, quickly slipping Ibanez.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->Adam Dunn is one of the worst outfielders<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>I've</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> ever <b><!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo-->seen<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--></b>, and the worst starting outfielder defensively in the game today. <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>I don't care</b> <b>about</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->the all holy fielding bibles'<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>analysis</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->of him<!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's all you needed to say.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do we need to do this again? Do we <i>really</i> need to do this again? Cause I PWNED your ass last time.
Shall I mention that almost ALL defensive stats are mostly for shit? No, I shouldn't. So let's take defensive stats into account. Ok fine we will. For them to be relevant we, of course, need context. Well what context might be involved in defending in baseball? Well each time a ball is put into play there is a different context. Ok fine. No play is the same as any other. Well what makes each play different and creates a new, dynamic context? Well it just so happens to be the different variables in each context. What could these variable be? Well there are infinite variables. Well what do we have to go on to judge a players ability as a defensiveman? Hmm...let's see...how about reading the ball off the bat...ok, then there is the field you play in, the speed of the player, his range (pretty much a combination of the previous three,) the pitchers on the players team, the surrounding defense on said team, the shifts used by the coaching staff, the weather/field conditions, the players ability to throw the ball both fast and with accuracy, the players ability to play a ball correctly off the wall, the players abilitiy to play with the wall in their vicinity...fucking a million different variables that contribute to a specific players defensive ability. So what does that mean? It means that their are too many instance-specific circumstances surrounding each individual ball put into play for ANYONE to quantify a players defensive ability with statistics.
So what are we left with?
Generally vague statistics and our eyes.
Go look up the grades by The Fielding Bible for last year. Ibanez was the 3rd worst LFer in baseball according to their unbelievably thorough analysis. Worse than Manny. Dunn wasn't even listed in 2008 as being one of the bad LFers (although he <i>was</i> near the top/bottom of that list in previous years.)
It's a moot point as far as the Cubs are concerned. But I'd rather have the 28 year old, improving-with-the-glove Dunn in the field than the 37 year-old, quickly slipping Ibanez.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->Adam Dunn is one of the worst outfielders<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>I've</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> ever <b><!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo-->seen<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--></b>, and the worst starting outfielder defensively in the game today. <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>I don't care</b> <b>about</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->the all holy fielding bibles'<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>analysis</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->of him<!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's all you needed to say.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do we need to do this again? Do we <i>really</i> need to do this again? Cause I PWNED your ass last time.
Shall I mention that almost ALL defensive stats are mostly for shit? No, I shouldn't. So let's take defensive stats into account. Ok fine we will. For them to be relevant we, of course, need context. Well what context might be involved in defending in baseball? Well each time a ball is put into play there is a different context. Ok fine. No play is the same as any other. Well what makes each play different and creates a new, dynamic context? Well it just so happens to be the different variables in each context. What could these variable be? Well there are infinite variables. Well what do we have to go on to judge a players ability as a defensiveman? Hmm...let's see...how about reading the ball off the bat...ok, then there is the field you play in, the speed of the player, his range (pretty much a combination of the previous three,) the pitchers on the players team, the surrounding defense on said team, the shifts used by the coaching staff, the weather/field conditions, the players ability to throw the ball both fast and with accuracy, the players ability to play a ball correctly off the wall, the players abilitiy to play with the wall in their vicinity...fucking a million different variables that contribute to a specific players defensive ability. So what does that mean? It means that their are too many instance-specific circumstances surrounding each individual ball put into play for ANYONE to quantify a players defensive ability with statistics.
So what are we left with?
Generally vague statistics and our eyes.
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy