12-31-2008, 08:40 AM
<!--quoteo(post=7773:date=Dec 30 2008, 11:24 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 30 2008, 11:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Andy, I agree with you that Riggs Stephenson's numbers are excellent, but Billy Williams is the #1 Cub LFer.
In comparing their numbers, you absolutely have to account for the eras in which they played. Riggs played in the late 20's and early 30's, perhaps the greatest offensive era in MLB history.
By contrast, Billy played his prime years in the 60's, the absolute worst offensive era in MLB history (not counting the dead-ball days).
Thus, Billy's numbers, given that context, are better, even though they're quite similar to Stephenson's.
Coming from another angle, Billy played 16 seasons for the Cubs, including his entire prime. Riggs played nine. Riggs played 1,310 games in his MLB career, 978 as a Cub...Billy played 1,117 <i>in a row</i>
(at the time, the NL record), and well over a thousand more total games than the Riggmeister.
Billy's number is retired, and his flag is waving at Wrigley every day. He's a much more iconic figure in team history.
He's also a member of baseball's Hall Of Fame, which means that they think the same of him as we do.
I'm glad you brought up Riggs; it made me go look him up, and realize what a hell of a hitter he was, in his day.
But Sweet-swingin' Billy Williams is the man.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough. OPS+ 130 to 133. It's not that far off. The biggest difference is that one was an on base/run creator and the other a slugger. Given that we value sluggers over obp guys, I can buy that.
I'll swap them, but Riggs isn't moving any further down than 2.
In comparing their numbers, you absolutely have to account for the eras in which they played. Riggs played in the late 20's and early 30's, perhaps the greatest offensive era in MLB history.
By contrast, Billy played his prime years in the 60's, the absolute worst offensive era in MLB history (not counting the dead-ball days).
Thus, Billy's numbers, given that context, are better, even though they're quite similar to Stephenson's.
Coming from another angle, Billy played 16 seasons for the Cubs, including his entire prime. Riggs played nine. Riggs played 1,310 games in his MLB career, 978 as a Cub...Billy played 1,117 <i>in a row</i>
(at the time, the NL record), and well over a thousand more total games than the Riggmeister.
Billy's number is retired, and his flag is waving at Wrigley every day. He's a much more iconic figure in team history.
He's also a member of baseball's Hall Of Fame, which means that they think the same of him as we do.
I'm glad you brought up Riggs; it made me go look him up, and realize what a hell of a hitter he was, in his day.
But Sweet-swingin' Billy Williams is the man.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fair enough. OPS+ 130 to 133. It's not that far off. The biggest difference is that one was an on base/run creator and the other a slugger. Given that we value sluggers over obp guys, I can buy that.
I'll swap them, but Riggs isn't moving any further down than 2.
I got nothin'.
Andy
Andy