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<!--quoteo(post=100015:date=Jun 5 2010, 11:47 AM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Jun 5 2010, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=100006:date=Jun 5 2010, 07:40 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jun 5 2010, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Batting Theriot-Lee-Ramirez 2-3-4 at this stage in the season is really indefensible. I'm sorry, but it is.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really do understand your point, Ace...and, I'm pretty close to feeling Fella's sentiments about Theriot, as well.
Here's the thing...to me, managing anything (especially a baseball team) is something of a high wire act. You're handed a certain foundation, and you have to assume the quality of its elements.
In this case...do we assume that Aramis is a dangerous clutch-hitter, or has simply turned into a waste product? Has he earned the right to play out a terrible slump, or does he sit immediately? If you're going to sit him, when do you know to start him again? I think certain types of players have earned the right to "play through"...if only because getting them jump-started is critical to the team's success.
I don't have the answer to my next thought/question...is it easier or harder for a clean-up hitter to get restarted in the eight-hole, than his normal spot? I don't know if I overthink these things...but, I am for allowing our best players to hang in there and find it.
Same for Lee...cornerstone players get more latitude, in my opinion.
As for Theriot...I do agree. I don't know why Castro isn't in the two. The only thing I can think of...the two-hole has always required strong situational hitters, with the ability to protect the runner, get on base, etc. Is it possible that they haven't seen this kind of ability/insight from Castro, as yet?
On some level...we simply have to hope that each player plays up to his ability. Isn't that really the problem, right now? Our players simply aren't getting it done. Is this the manager's fault? He doesn't take their AB's. He's tried jump-starting the team with different approaches...he's not remained dormant.
We all absolutely want this team to win...but, as great the urgency, it doesn't absolve the need for patience.
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I feel you, Rapp - but it's too late to hope for a jump-start, or to be risking present wins in the hopes that the losses will effectuate that jump-start.
Lee and Ramirez should be hitting 7-8 until further notice. Theriot should be on the bench, playing only against lefties, and batting 7 or 8 when he does (accommodating Lee and Ramirez as necessary).
I can't see it any other way.
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<!--quoteo(post=100017:date=Jun 5 2010, 11:28 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jun 5 2010, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=100015:date=Jun 5 2010, 11:47 AM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Jun 5 2010, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=100006:date=Jun 5 2010, 07:40 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jun 5 2010, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Batting Theriot-Lee-Ramirez 2-3-4 at this stage in the season is really indefensible. I'm sorry, but it is.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really do understand your point, Ace...and, I'm pretty close to feeling Fella's sentiments about Theriot, as well.
Here's the thing...to me, managing anything (especially a baseball team) is something of a high wire act. You're handed a certain foundation, and you have to assume the quality of its elements.
In this case...do we assume that Aramis is a dangerous clutch-hitter, or has simply turned into a waste product? Has he earned the right to play out a terrible slump, or does he sit immediately? If you're going to sit him, when do you know to start him again? I think certain types of players have earned the right to "play through"...if only because getting them jump-started is critical to the team's success.
I don't have the answer to my next thought/question...is it easier or harder for a clean-up hitter to get restarted in the eight-hole, than his normal spot? I don't know if I overthink these things...but, I am for allowing our best players to hang in there and find it.
Same for Lee...cornerstone players get more latitude, in my opinion.
As for Theriot...I do agree. I don't know why Castro isn't in the two. The only thing I can think of...the two-hole has always required strong situational hitters, with the ability to protect the runner, get on base, etc. Is it possible that they haven't seen this kind of ability/insight from Castro, as yet?
On some level...we simply have to hope that each player plays up to his ability. Isn't that really the problem, right now? Our players simply aren't getting it done. Is this the manager's fault? He doesn't take their AB's. He's tried jump-starting the team with different approaches...he's not remained dormant.
We all absolutely want this team to win...but, as great the urgency, it doesn't absolve the need for patience.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I feel you, Rapp - but it's too late to hope for a jump-start, or to be risking present wins in the hopes that the losses will effectuate that jump-start.
Lee and Ramirez should be hitting 7-8 until further notice. Theriot should be on the bench, playing only against lefties, and batting 7 or 8 when he does (accommodating Lee and Ramirez as necessary).
I can't see it any other way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lee and Ramirez hitting at the bottom would be an attempt at a jump-start...am I wrong?
In any case...I disagree (for now). Let the core remain the core...it lives and dies with them anyway.
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What I don't get is why is Lou so anti-Kosuke? Granted, he's overpaid, but he's been having a respectable season thus far. Not awe-inspiring numbers, but decent. Yes, slumping a little over the last 2 weeks, but he's still getting on base.
And it doesn't seem like he's a dick in the clubhouse and a pain in the ass. Really our OFers are not the problem here.
Fuk is like Lou's red-headed step child, and I just don't understand.
"Last year, I was sort of a kid and I was a little scared, I ain't scared any more."
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Theriot leading off today.... genius.
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I spent a couple hours on my Saturday afternoon writing about last night's Cubs' lineup:
Please read me because nobody else does
@TheBlogfines
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<!--quoteo(post=100047:date=Jun 5 2010, 05:54 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jun 5 2010, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I spent a couple hours on my Saturday afternoon writing about last night's Cubs' lineup:
Please read me because nobody else does<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems to me that Clapp just left us all faced...well done.
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<!--quoteo(post=100048:date=Jun 5 2010, 06:08 PM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Jun 5 2010, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=100047:date=Jun 5 2010, 05:54 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jun 5 2010, 05:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I spent a couple hours on my Saturday afternoon writing about last night's Cubs' lineup:
Please read me because nobody else does<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seems to me that Clapp just left us all faced...well done.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was very well done.
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I want Piniella fired really, really badly. I think it's critical. I think he is a HUGE problem. I think he is, at this moment, a dreadful manager.
It's not just about his in-game management or his lineups. It's not just how he uses (for example) Theriot, it's that he has no capacity for any of the various management styles that might wrestle Theriot's neck from the grip of Theriot's sphincter.
Piniella can no longer do this job and he is no longer doing this job. He's just taking up space. There is no good reason to let him molder for four more months.
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<!--quoteo(post=100559:date=Jun 9 2010, 08:45 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 9 2010, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I want Piniella fired really, really badly. I think it's critical. I think he is a HUGE problem. I think he is, at this moment, a dreadful manager.
It's not just about his in-game management or his lineups. It's not just how he uses (for example) Theriot, it's that he has no capacity for any of the various management styles that might wrestle Theriot's neck from the grip of Theriot's sphincter.
Piniella can no longer do this job and he is no longer doing this job. He's just taking up space. There is no good reason to let him molder for four more months.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But they will.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=99296:date=Jun 1 2010, 12:12 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jun 1 2010, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->But you can't argue with the results. Sometimes, <i>any</i> change is good change.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KB - I completely disagree with this line of thinking. Change, for change's sake is not a good idea most of the time.
If you are going to make a change, you need to have a plan as to how that change will have significant impact to whatever metric you are trying to improve. Let's say it is wins, in this case...How is eating the remainder of Lou's deal, paying more to Tramm, eventually hiring a better (and assumedly equal/more expensive mgr) firing and eating part of JH's deal, and replacing him with an equal or better GM, etc. going to fix Lee and Aramis, this team's two biggest problems?
I disliked Baker with a passion, and never felt he was the kind of guy I'd want around. I like Lou. But both are veteran experienced managers. Some other guy won't be any better because that wouldn't make the 50mm invested in Lee, Aramis and Soriano (Soriano has hit well this year) deliver the overall productivity that warrants that investment.
If it comes out that moving Z to the pen was Lou's idea, and that JH said, "I don't like it - but it's your neck" - then fire Lou today... Otherwise - I don't see the value.
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<!--quoteo(post=100561:date=Jun 9 2010, 08:49 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 9 2010, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=100559:date=Jun 9 2010, 08:45 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 9 2010, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I want Piniella fired really, really badly. I think it's critical. I think he is a HUGE problem. I think he is, at this moment, a dreadful manager.
It's not just about his in-game management or his lineups. It's not just how he uses (for example) Theriot, it's that he has no capacity for any of the various management styles that might wrestle Theriot's neck from the grip of Theriot's sphincter.
Piniella can no longer do this job and he is no longer doing this job. He's just taking up space. There is no good reason to let him molder for four more months.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But they will.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed they will.
Lou needed to crack some skulls weeks ago and try to shake things up, try anything he could, but that wasn't going to happen. He is operating like the worst kind of lame duck, which he is. His in-game management is actually the least of my worries right now. I think he has now become a bad influence on the team, and his general disposition is worrisome to say the least. The best he could come up with after all this time was growing a playoff beard. He needs to be gone yesterday. And Hendry needs to be next. If Ricketts doesn't assert himself soon, then I'm going to lose whatever respect I had for him, and I won't be the only fan who feels that way. The honeymoon period is now over for him.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Lou needed to crack some skulls weeks ago and try to shake things up, try anything he could, but that wasn't going to happen.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rok, I love you, but this is insane. He moved Zambrano to the pen. He benched Theriot. He sat 5 guys from our opening day lineup. He took Gorzelanny out of the rotation. He pulled Wells after 16 pitches. He tried sitting ARam. He tried playing ARam. He moved Lee down in the order. He moved Byrd ALL OVER the order. He's put Colvin in the starting lineup. He tried Cardidad in the 8th. He tried Grabow in the 8th. He tried Zambrano in the 8th. He tried Marshall in the 8th. He's trying Cashner in the 8th. He's tried leaving starters in rather than go to the bullpen.
NONE of this made any difference. The Cubs continue on their merry way, scoring 1 or 2 or occasionally 3 runs.
Put aside whether you (or I) think he should be fired. The idea that he hasn't tried to "shake things up" is simply false. It's not that he hasn't shaken things up. It's that the shake ups have had ZERO effect.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=100564:date=Jun 9 2010, 09:04 AM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jun 9 2010, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Lou needed to crack some skulls weeks ago and try to shake things up, try anything he could, but that wasn't going to happen.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rok, I love you, but this is insane. He moved Zambrano to the pen. He benched Theriot. He sat 5 guys from our opening day lineup. He took Gorzelanny out of the rotation. He pulled Wells after 16 pitches. He tried sitting ARam. He tried playing ARam. He moved Lee down in the order. He moved Byrd ALL OVER the order. He's put Colvin in the starting lineup. He tried Cardidad in the 8th. He tried Grabow in the 8th. He tried Zambrano in the 8th. He tried Marshall in the 8th. He's trying Cashner in the 8th. He's tried leaving starters in rather than go to the bullpen.
NONE of this made any difference. The Cubs continue on their merry way, scoring 1 or 2 or occasionally 3 runs.
Put aside whether you (or I) think he should be fired. The idea that he hasn't tried to "shake things up" is simply false. It's not that he hasn't shaken things up. It's that the shake ups have had ZERO effect.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's tried various things, but in each case, he went back to the status quo rather quickly. Not my idea of shaking things up. Theriot was benched, then inserted back in the leadoff or #2 slot a few days later. Z was moved to the pen for whatever reason, and now he's back after not being properly stretched out as promised. ARam should have been benched or DL'd a long time ago. Something definitely stinks there. Just about every other attempt to shuffle things around comes off as desperation to me (except for calling up Castro and Cashner, but even those could be argued). I'm not blaming Lou for the lack of performance, but he has allowed a lot of things drag on for far too long to the point where now the situation is unfixable IMO.
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<!--quoteo(post=100565:date=Jun 9 2010, 09:13 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jun 9 2010, 09:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=100564:date=Jun 9 2010, 09:04 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jun 9 2010, 09:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Lou needed to crack some skulls weeks ago and try to shake things up, try anything he could, but that wasn't going to happen.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Rok, I love you, but this is insane. He moved Zambrano to the pen. He benched Theriot. He sat 5 guys from our opening day lineup. He took Gorzelanny out of the rotation. He pulled Wells after 16 pitches. He tried sitting ARam. He tried playing ARam. He moved Lee down in the order. He moved Byrd ALL OVER the order. He's put Colvin in the starting lineup. He tried Cardidad in the 8th. He tried Grabow in the 8th. He tried Zambrano in the 8th. He tried Marshall in the 8th. He's trying Cashner in the 8th. He's tried leaving starters in rather than go to the bullpen.
NONE of this made any difference. The Cubs continue on their merry way, scoring 1 or 2 or occasionally 3 runs.
Put aside whether you (or I) think he should be fired. The idea that he hasn't tried to "shake things up" is simply false. It's not that he hasn't shaken things up. It's that the shake ups have had ZERO effect.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's tried various things, but in each case, he went back to the status quo rather quickly. Not my idea of shaking things up. Theriot was benched, then inserted back in the leadoff or #2 slot a few days later. Z was moved to the pen for whatever reason, and now he's back after not being properly stretched out as promised. ARam should have been benched or DL'd a long time ago. Something definitely stinks there. Just about every other attempt to shuffle things around comes off as desperation to me (except for calling up Castro and Cashner, but even those could be argued). I'm not blaming Lou for the lack of performance, but he has allowed a lot of things drag on for far too long to the point where now the situation is unfixable IMO.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But every move he has made has had NO effect. Yes, he could have left Theriot on the bench, but the Cubs weren't scoring any more runs, and Fontenot stopped hitting. I'd also add that when Theriot was reinserted, he started doing exactly what Lou wanted him to do. Get on base. So what would the point of sitting him now be? ARam WAS benched. In the last 3 weeks, he started 7 total games. Your Z argument is totally beside the point. You are arguing HOW they handled a huge move, when initially you were arguing that he isn't making any moves.
Look, I'm done arguing that firing Lou would solve nothing, because with most people on this board, it's pointless. And, frankly, I'm ambivalent about it anyway. But if you guys are going to argue that Lou is sitting around doing nothing while Rome burns, I will argue, because it's a provably false assertion.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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Why didn't he walk McGahee to load the bases with 2 outs last night? Seems like quite a nobrainer with the winning run on second. I didn't watch the game, so I really have no idea.
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